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Battle of Britain Day

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Battle of Britain Day

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Old 15th Sep 2023, 16:09
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Originally Posted by Deep Throat
Since this historic day in 1940, the Battle of Britain is remembered annually on 15th September. This year marks the 83rd anniversary.

On the 20 August 1940, during the high point of the Battle of Britain, Churchill addressed the House of Commons, the Country, and the Empire, to outline the war situation.

In the middle of that long speech, he created the famous nickname for the RAF fighter pilots involved in the battle: "The Few"

Not so. It bugs me that the name "The Few" has been hijacked by the fighter fraternity. Actually, the "Few" in Churchill's speech are the "British Airmen", and include all of Bomber Command as well!:
“The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the World War by their prowess and by their devotion.

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day; but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power.

On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers, who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain.”
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 21:25
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Just watched it again, of course!
​​​​​​
Posted a reminder this morning on another IB site (British Expats) - not a peep.

Tomorrow, on that same site, I shall post my "outrage" at the lack of "diversity" in that film - just wait for the froth, the torrent of horror that will ensue...
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 02:39
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I would just like to see a specific mention of the Polish airmen.
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 06:35
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as always the piece that he says specifically NOT to forget is forgotten and ignored.

17 words, that’s all anyone remembers, then they forget what the speech is actually about,


“Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day,

but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate, careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain.”


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Old 16th Sep 2023, 06:59
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sad it was hardly mentioned in most news outlets
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 07:17
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
sad it was hardly mentioned in most news outlets
Why? It’s not news.
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 09:05
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Why? It’s not news.
and with that attitude, it won't be long before it's not history either.
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 10:52
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Originally Posted by ZH875
and with that attitude, it won't be long before it's not history either.
"Lest we forget"....
Forget what?
What does 'lest' mean, anyway?
Oh, forget it.
Sorry I asked.

Brave new world.
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 11:30
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Originally Posted by ZH875
and with that attitude, it won't be long before it's not history either.
That rates as one of the finest observations I've seen on Pprune.
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 23:03
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What about the erks? No glamour, no spotty scarves, no MG sports cars, no flash of knickers or suspenders. <br />The men and women who worked even worse hours than the aircrew, few or none of them as conscripts: they fed the Few, serviced the aircraft, did the unglamourous admin, fired Bren guns and Bofors to defend the airfields, and flew balloons to defend the cities.<br />Those dwindling numbers of us alive then and alive now have some inkling of memory of our heroes.<br />Thank you all.
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 07:16
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"What about the erks? "

Sadly in all major military conflicts those "behind the scenes" are rarely remembered - the guys who made the swords for Thermopylae, those who carved the bows at Agincourt, or made the muskets for Gettysburg.

Air warfare is always a vast amount of backup and a few at the point - but they all need to work to get a win. We all know this
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 12:04
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Originally Posted by Wensleydale
Not so. It bugs me that the name "The Few" has been hijacked by the fighter fraternity. Actually, the "Few" in Churchill's speech are the "British Airmen", and include all of Bomber Command as well!:
“The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the World War by their prowess and by their devotion.Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day; but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power.

On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers, who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain.”
It may 'bug' you but i disagree. At one point some years ago I would have agreed with you, not now. The 'but' is significant.

'The few' clearly refers to the fighter pilots in the previous sentences. Way before your selective cut and paste.

The edit backs your argument but in the context of the full 30 minute speech, Churchill leaves the subject of fighters, then moves onto the subject of the bombers

The Battle of Britain was still raging overhead when this speech was delivered on 20 August 1940. It was an update on the progress of the war.

The Battle of Britain had been predicted in this speech - June 18, 1940 - House of Commons - officially recognise duration as being from 10 July until 31 October 1940

What General Weygand called the Battle of France is over. I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this Island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, “This was their finest hour.”

It was their finest hour - and I don't just mean the fighter pilots

Originally Posted by langleybaston
What about the erks? No glamour, no spotty scarves, no MG sports cars, no flash of knickers or suspenders. <br />The men and women who worked even worse hours than the aircrew, few or none of them as conscripts: they fed the Few, serviced the aircraft, did the unglamourous admin, fired Bren guns and Bofors to defend the airfields, and flew balloons to defend the cities.<br />Those dwindling numbers of us alive then and alive now have some inkling of memory of our heroes.<br />Thank you all.
I hope, by adding the second photo, I made reference to the ground crew.

I could add a photo of the radar operators and many other branches etc. I won't. The history is out there

Radar History

Originally Posted by Asturias56
"What about the erks? "

Sadly in all major military conflicts those "behind the scenes" are rarely remembered - the guys who made the swords for Thermopylae, those who carved the bows at Agincourt, or made the muskets for Gettysburg.

Air warfare is always a vast amount of backup and a few at the point - but they all need to work to get a win. We all know this
​​​​​
Originally Posted by CISTRS
I would just like to see a specific mention of the Polish airmen.
I think the Battle of Britain Film does it well enough. Reference is made to the Polish pilots

I'll do it for you


Last edited by Deep Throat; 18th Sep 2023 at 10:41.
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 14:22
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Deep Throat
It may 'bug' you but i disagree. At one point some years ago I would have agreed with you, not now. The 'but' is significant.

'The few' clearly refers to the fighter pilots in the previous sentences. Way before your selective cut and paste.

The edit backs your argument but in the context of the full 30 minute speech, Churchill leaves the subject of fighters, then moves onto the subject of the bombers

The Battle of Britain was still raging overhead when this speech was delivered on 20 August 1940. It was an update on the progress of the war.

The Battle of Britain had been predicted in this speech - June 18, 1940 - House of Commons - officially recognise duration as being from 10 July until 31 October 1940

What General Weygand called the Battle of France is over. I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this Island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, “This was their finest hour.”

It was their finest hour - and I don't just mean the fighter pilots



I hope, by adding the second photo, I made reference to the ground crew.

I could add a photo of the radar operators and many other branches etc. I won't. the history is out there


​​​​​

I think the Battle of Britain Film does it well enough. Reference is made to the Polish pilots

I'll do it for you

My "edit" is a complete paragraph of the speech as printed in Hansard. 'Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few' - UK Parliament . The subject of the paragraph is the British Airmen, and not the fighter pilots. I stand by my comments.
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 21:52
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Originally Posted by ZH875
and with that attitude, it won't be long before it's not history either.
History is a record of what happened. You can’t make something “not history” so drop the Daily Mail nonsense eh?
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 21:53
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix
"Lest we forget"....
Forget what?
What does 'lest' mean, anyway?
Oh, forget it.
Sorry I asked.

Brave new world.
So, remember everything right?
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 21:54
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Originally Posted by stevef
That rates as one of the finest observations I've seen on Pprune.
What? It is manifest meaningless inaccurate nonsense.
Some folk are easily pleased.
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 22:37
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
What? It is manifest meaningless inaccurate nonsense.
Some folk are easily pleased.
Irony.
Not a lot of it about these days.

I gather that gently taking the p1ss among friends is frowned upon.
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 23:32
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
History is a record of what happened. You can’t make something “not history” so drop the Daily Mail nonsense eh?
"History" is a very fluid thing - being re-written and re-interpreted on a disturbingly regular basis.
If people didn't 'forget' (or change) history, the old saying "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." would have zero meaning.
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 06:48
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The mention of the Poles in the BoB film was in no small measure due to the input of Benny Fisz as a Producer ( accoring to his Bank Manager in conversation)
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 07:38
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
What? It is manifest meaningless inaccurate nonsense.
Some folk are easily pleased.
Perhaps you forgot to say: 'In MY opinion it is manifest, meaningless, inaccurate nonsense'.

Now that the anniversary of The Battle of Britain's turning point has been discounted as unimportant and there's no obligation to speak German as a second language ...
Of course history can be unmade, it depends on who's telling it. For example, even current - as well as past - events are being re-written for the edification of the Russian population and its satellites. Why should they believe 'our' truths in the face of unrelenting propaganda?

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