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FTRS and promotion

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FTRS and promotion

Old 13th Sep 2018, 19:22
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FTRS and promotion

I see from the RAF Reserves site that there is a notice stating that *Chief of Staff Personnel has directed that from COP 7 Sep 18, all FTRS and ADC promotions are to be suspended. I take this to mean that a post can no longer advertise for 1 rank below (i.e. eligible for promotion in accordance with etc etc) and therefore a Wg Cdr post must be filled by a former Wg Cdr or higher? Anyone know why this has been put in place? Is this the same for the Army/Navy Reserve Forces?

Last edited by NavyNav2; 13th Sep 2018 at 19:25. Reason: error
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 11:18
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I'm not aware of that. I can't see it on the reserves site. Do you have a link?
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 14:36
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https://www.raf.mod.uk/ftrs-ptvr-adc-verr/
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 07:10
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This is interesting, and IMHO, a good thing. I've witnessed an SO3 leaver rise to SO1 through FTRS promotions, and out of their depth doesn't begin to describe it.
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 08:16
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Originally Posted by downsizer View Post
This is interesting, and IMHO, a good thing. I've witnessed an SO3 leaver rise to SO1 through FTRS promotions, and out of their depth doesn't begin to describe it.
It happens in the full time bit as well.
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 11:15
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Never personally experienced an officer moving 2 ranks up, only either 1 up (with an existing promotable score) or 1 or even 2 ranks down. Never seen anyone struggle with a failed-to-ressetle-successfully post either.

What I have experienced is the lack of candidates due to the pool of card-carrying AFPS75 personnel drying up.
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 11:51
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I always thought the best way to resolve this one was to promote someone for a post on acting-rank and then give them 2 shows on the Promotion Selection Board (PSB). If they score then they should be promoted to substantive, if after 2x PSBs they should be given notice or busted down a rank? If you want promoting to OF-3, OF-4 and OF-5 then you need to do IOD and ACSC(R).

That would then at least offer some parity and stop some of the sniping from the Regular cadre (which in some cases is probably deserved!).
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 11:56
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I think there's an element of the 'law of unintended consequences' about this. Is Manning starting to see FTRS applications to return to Regular service in a higher rank than when people left?

They also need to sort the nonsense of the pensions payments too, though. FTRS is a new career and should be treated as such. If you've earned your pension, and leave the Regular RAF you should be able to claim it, and anything you earn as an FTRS role should be separate. The problem is that the FTRS is treated almost as a continuation of service, and I have seen people move back and forth between regular and reserve. However, people want to advance in their careers and if you're a wg cdr at the top of the scale, the only way to increase remuneration under the current system may be to apply for the next rank up as FTRS.

It is understandable to see how promotion within a particular specialist area (as described by downsizer) comes about. As in the outside world, people apply for the next rank up and they look like (may be) the best person for the job, especially versus an unknown quantity. The tick in the box comes from having been scored by a prom board, at some point previously, but not promoted due to the limited opportunities at the time. I can't see how this works for the second promotion though - perhaps that's why COS Pers has taken this action.

The real inequity here, which I have seen, is that the limitation in promotions below the PSL means that some areas really needing resource, which Manning considers to be third tier, are simply not filled. In part this is due to a need to retain a balance at the lower ranks, so the areas needing these posts to be filled switch them to FTRS and 'take' people from the lower ranks anyway. A sqn ldr prom board may score 15, with a PSL of 4, offer another 2 acting, leaving positions 7 and below with nothing, even though there may be 20 or more gaps at SO1 level. The desperate gapped-post owner is forced to convert the gap to wg cdr FTRS, with the blessing of Manning, and number 15 off the board applies for and gets it. This leaves a gap at the SO2 level and Nos 7-14 go without, but the £ cost to the RAF is not much different to what the Regular post would've cost - the capitation cost of a wg cdr is considerable, FTRS or not!

Oh and yes, Vascodegama, you are correct!
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 12:21
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
I always thought the best way to resolve this one was to promote someone for a post on acting-rank and then give them 2 shows on the Promotion Selection Board (PSB). If they score then they should be promoted to substantive, if after 2x PSBs they should be given notice or busted down a rank?
In response to an appeal for ideas, I proposed exactly this 30 years ago. I proposed it across all ranks. For instance there was a difficulty getting a particular post filled at Buchan. Some corporals were selected for the promotion to Sgt course but with no guaranteed of a post or promotion. On the course they were told they were selected for Buchan; accept and you got promoted. Effectively they were doing stick and carrot.

There were lots of posts in the personnel bulletin of a similar desirability.

My suggestion was to allow applications from a lower rank. They could be boarded and more importantly interviewed as the current system did not take an individual's circumstances into consideration.

It was rejected out of hand.
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 17:21
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Originally Posted by Just This Once... View Post
Never personally experienced an officer moving 2 ranks up, only either 1 up (with an existing promotable score) or 1 or even 2 ranks down. Never seen anyone struggle with a failed-to-ressetle-successfully post either.

What I have experienced is the lack of candidates due to the pool of card-carrying AFPS75 personnel drying up.
Perhaps I should have been clearer. Left the regulars as a Flt Lt, joined FTRS on promotion to Sqn Ldr, then applied for a Wing Commander FTRS post which they got.
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 19:20
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Originally Posted by downsizer View Post
Perhaps I should have been clearer. Left the regulars as a Flt Lt, joined FTRS on promotion to Sqn Ldr, then applied for a Wing Commander FTRS post which they got.
That seems to be one of the big attractions of FTRS, having spoken to a couple of FTRS Sqn Ldrs who couldn’t get promoted as Regulars. I also know of at least one Gp Capt who did the same thing; all it seems to take is a positive promotion recommendation to ‘qualify’ an individual to apply for a post they like the look of at the higher rank.

I think there's an element of the 'law of unintended consequences' about this. Is Manning starting to see FTRS applications to return to Regular service in a higher rank than when people left?
It’s already happening. There are areas such as Cyber where blind eyes are turned to get expertise in the door, and I know ‘lateral transfers’ into senior ranks has been talked about as well - I know the Police aren’t happy about a similar scheme. Chatting to a chum at Air recently he suggested that FTRS and lateral transfers into senior ranks are here to stay and we have to get used to it.
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Old 15th Sep 2018, 19:53
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Originally Posted by Melchett01 View Post


That seems to be one of the big attractions of FTRS, having spoken to a couple of FTRS Sqn Ldrs who couldn’t get promoted as Regulars. I also know of at least one Gp Capt who did the same thing; all it seems to take is a positive promotion recommendation to ‘qualify’ an individual to apply for a post they like the look of at the higher rank.



It’s already happening. There are areas such as Cyber where blind eyes are turned to get expertise in the door, and I know ‘lateral transfers’ into senior ranks has been talked
Didn't something like that happen in the fighter control world? I knew one nav, ex-F4, was at cdr and another ex-Vulcan was a gp capt. Don't know the circumstances but I was certainly surprised.
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 10:33
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ISTR at one stage the FC world was desperately short of promotable officers ... possibly due to the demographics being out of kilter. Importation of senior officers from other Branches was deemed essential.
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 15:24
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Downsizer, Vasco, just look at 22Gp and the Air Cadet debacle
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 23:29
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Originally Posted by ACW342 View Post
Downsizer, Vasco, just look at 22Gp and the Air Cadet debacle
And that is going to get worse in October when the so-called 'strategic review'is published.
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