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Phenom

Old 9th Aug 2018, 11:37
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airpolice View Post
So, where I am going with this, is that if the UK leaves EASA and simply replicates (initially) EASA rules and requirements, they could then change it, bit by bit, to suit what they are told by Parliament to do.

Having the CAA change what recognition is given to the CFS approved output might be easier than getting Europeans to accept it.
That of course would just be the tip of the iceberg, and do wonders for retention, if say a time period for a return of service was a sure fire way to a civvy licence.
That's how I see it eventually panning out, on my side of the fence ( Engineering ) part 145 was brought out in the EU to bring about commonality, prior to that each aviation body, the CAA etc, had different requirements, modifications, airworthiness directives etc, so the likes of Airbus were having to build subtle variants of each aircraft to suit each country, something that was stupid as they all would fly in each others airspace etc, therefore Part 145 came into being and it was one supposed standard across the EU. ( personally I feel that the system was dumbed down at the time to the lowest country, as it was easier to dumb it down than to raise up their standards)
The US have also adopted / moved towards a version of Part 145 to bring standardisation between the EU and the US, this in turn has spread the world over and most countries like New Zealand and Australia have a similar version to Part 145, so like it or not I cannot see the UK going it alone and doing their own thing, Part 145 is here to stay in my eyes and we will probably adopt most if not all of EASA's dross.

The problem comes in that the CAA is now a shadow of it's former self having passed most of the tasks to the EASA and a lot of the skilled and qualified through industry engineers etc have left to be replaced by fewer college graduates and clerks, none of which have the skill set I believe they need.
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Old 9th Aug 2018, 15:38
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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I knew an accident was going to happen, I did not expect it to be this soon but it was inevitable and it won't be the last one. Way too much time playing in the sim and no time on the aircraft and then wanting to go off an "play" with no proper training or experience on type doing stuff that it was not designed for and had only been briefly attempted during the proving trials. The aircraft is very difficult to fly in close formation because of the way it accelerates and decelerates which makes statin keeping very difficult. Combine that with doing 60 degree turns and inexperienced on type QFI and the holes in the swiss cheese line up quickly.

The Phenom is a great aircraft but it is not a great primary ME trainer and was a really bad choice for the job. The guys doing the job at the coalface are top notch guys who just want to deliver the best but the rest is just not joined up properly. Its just a civilianised version of 45 Sqn headed up by a load of ex military who jumped ship to take the jobs and have no understanding of how to operate in the civilian world both from the poor management of staff to a total lack of understanding of civilian regulation.

More than one person has quit in protest at the situation.
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Old 9th Aug 2018, 16:56
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Accident, bose-x?

How many Phenoms are actually on the line at Cranwell these days...…??
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Old 9th Aug 2018, 22:38
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Accident, bose-x?

How many Phenoms are actually on the line at Cranwell these days...Ö??
Noted from the spotters logs at Cranwell, 8th August.

Phenoms ZM333, ZM334 and ZM337 noted at Cranwell. ZM335 and ZM336 at Waddington and reported as not flown since 3rd July.
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Old 10th Aug 2018, 10:55
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Port wings of both of them parked up at Waddo not showing anything I can see, but then it might not the tip that's probably of concern, the wing root and attachment might be.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9022750

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9013687
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Old 10th Aug 2018, 18:20
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Port wings of both of them parked up at Waddo not showing anything I can see, but then it might not the tip that's probably of concern, the wing root and attachment might be.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9022750

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9013687
I don't think it will be the same wing on each aircraft, that has a problem.
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Old 10th Aug 2018, 23:18
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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.Errrrr you probably never thought that through....... to hit the port wing against the port wing of the other aircraft you would be practising head on close formation flying, one aircraft has had to hit the port wing against the other jets stb wing.... Or their stb wing against the port wing of the other...... Either way at least one port wing would be involved and neither of those look bad unless it was upper surface against lower.... Or vice versa.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 17:43
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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I have followed this thread and am slightly bemused by some of the comments written about flying the Phenom, particularly in formation. I have flown it from the left seat in close formation (echelon left and right and close line astern in wing overs and turns up to 60 deg bank angle), albeit against a Kingair and not another Phenom. I thought that the field of view was satisfactory in all positions and that the thrust and drag characteristics allowed good fore and aft positioning. There has been criticism in some posts of both of these aspects which surprised me. However, I am quite surprised that there have been no comments on the high pitch control forces at stabilised high bank angles. Perhaps opinions depend on formation experience and recency.

One MFTS aspect that needs to be considered with the Phenom is the number of different types that ME pilot students from the course may fly. This is far greater and more varied that any of the other MFTS types and so whatever type is used for ME pilot training will always be a compromise.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 19:18
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Thereís an awful lot of crap being written here. If youíve read the DASOR, youíll know what happened. If you canít, Iím sure news will feed out soon enough.

Im with Air Plod on the quality of training across the RAF. standards have lowered, corners are being cut and itís becoming a numbers game. Are the Typhoon pilots the best in the air to air business? Absolutely not, Lakenheath have that accolade by quite some margin. Is our engineering training still producing technicians that are regarded as the best at what they do? Sadly not. Training has been diluted and itís being manifesting itself on the front line for a few years now.

The RAF is slowly becoming a mediocre force and our reputation is already suffering. A sad fact but, it is true.

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Old 13th Aug 2018, 19:23
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Pure Pursuit,

Typhoon pilots Vs Lakenheath Pilots is probably not a comparison you can make. Debate the capabilities of the platforms and flying hours by all means, but until you have fought every pilot from both fleets I would suggest your claims are made on shaky ground.

Mr Vice.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 19:55
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Agree with him engineering wise, there always was a requirement in civi street for the highly qualified and skilled workforce that used to flow from the RAF, with both the reduction in both numbers and quality companies have been forced to train up their own civilian staff to replace them.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 20:05
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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The RAF is slowly becoming a mediocre force and our reputation is already suffering. A sad fact but, it is true.
That, right there, is truly awful.

Ghastly.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 20:52
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Opinion masquerading as fact.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 21:26
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Opinion masquerading as fact.
Well, if the standard has not dropped, how are they managing to maintain it with a lot fewer hours for Pilots?
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 22:02
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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For the benefit of those who doubt the opinions expressed above:

I understand that with this being an anonymous forum, so data can be hard to verify, but for those who know people... ask around.

Which units are getting anything like enough hours in the air to be even half competent?

Reds: Probably.

Front line Typhoon and Tornado, including QRA: nothing like it.

Phenom: Who knows, given the shortage of airframes, and the flying needed to get their QFIs (the ones who haven't yet left) to the standard, what the long term picture is?

Transport & Tanking: Apparently some, but some of them are civvies, the rest of them are run into the ground on ops. The A400 pilots were struggling to achieve 200hours/annum. Not sure if this is still the case?

Hawk T2: No, advanced high tech sims are not the same thing. Great for as well as, but not instead of. I hear the convex for QFIs is taking well in excess of 12 months, at a very slow rate. Output rate, albeit with some overseas customers to satisfy, is blocking up a 2 year plus hold for baby pilots with no likely refresher. 'Downloading' training needlessly from Typhoon, and pilots lacking basic fast jet handling skills.

Hawk T1: No idea, but they seem busy enough.

ISTAR: No idea, but imagine RJ and E3D crews must be struggling, due to high unserviceability rates.

Rotary: Training; Students are flying, and Instructors are doing an awful lot fewer (P1) hours in the air than they used to. Ops; Previously flown to exhaustion, which is as bad as not flying enough. Now showing large reductions.

Prefect: Too early to say, but probably not. Have they resolved the over torque issues yet? That's not exactly care free handling.

Texan: Ask me in 2019, when it just might have permission to fly in the UK.

Air Cadets: Don't make me laugh.

If standards haven't dropped, why is it that Air Command now say that "flight training is now to be to an acceptable minimum standard at the cheapest contractual price"? The previously used term "excellence" has been dropped.

That looks to me, as if even 22 Group have decide to settle for less.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 04:18
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Airpolice

Please donít take this as a continuation of previous spats between us but you need to be able to quantify your statements.

Out of all the types you mentioned above, you are unable to state for certain what hours their pilots are getting on a monthly basis. You are just guessing based on hearsay or vague information.

Iím in the RAF and I have no idea what monthly hours pilots are getting outside of my own unit. Can you be so sure that GR4 and Typhoon pilots are getting so few hours? Or are you basing your supposition on old information? Genuinely, I have no idea but I wouldnít guess and then pretend on here that itís a fact.

As for QFI training times, are you absolutely certain your information is bang up to date?

As I said, Iím not trying to start a fight and I obviously have no idea who you are. You could be AOC 22 Gp for all I know. Just please, stick to known facts to reinforce your point. It will help your credibility.

BV

Last edited by Bob Viking; 14th Aug 2018 at 07:21.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 08:09
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Back when retention seminars were held at RAF Waddington, one of my QFI colleagues told the 4-star chairing the session was that the reason he was PVR-ing was "Because we've been told that the RAF no longer trains for excellence, just for adequacy".

"Whoever told you that?" asked the 4-star, clearly unimpressed.
"OC Staneval, sir" my colleague replied.


Colleague is now a Virgin Atlantic captain - and the 4-star himself took early retirement!
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 09:14
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Rumour only - dent in cabin roof of one of the Phenom cabs at Waddo. Cat ?
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 11:10
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Please donít take this as a continuation of previous spats between us but you need to be able to quantify your statements.

Out of all the types you mentioned above, you are unable to state for certain what hours their pilots are getting on a monthly basis. You are just guessing based on hearsay or vague information.

Iím in the RAF and I have no idea what monthly hours pilots are getting outside of my own unit. Can you be so sure that GR4 and Typhoon pilots are getting so few hours? Or are you basing your supposition on old information? Genuinely, I have no idea but I wouldnít guess and then pretend on here that itís a fact.

As for QFI training times, are you absolutely certain your information is bang up to date?

I am sure you have read

As I said, Iím not trying to start a fight and I obviously have no idea who you are. You could be AOC 22 Gp for all I know. Just please, stick to known facts to reinforce your point. It will help your credibility.

BV
Bob, I don't want a fight with you, I just want everyone to know the truth.

I am of course long since departed for civvy street. You don't know who I am, but I know who you are. That's not really relevant.

You are still serving, and you are very close to the action, particularly regarding the T2. So consider this; anything that you can say, about the T2 fleet and the flow of students, should be taken as either absolute truth or malicious lies, intended to deceive. That's based on the premise that you would know, wouldn't you?

So, if you can tell us on here about what happens in the T2 fleet, why do think that I don't know people on the other fleets who can tell me the same thing?

How many hours a month have you flown in the last year?

The next time you speak to a Typhoon Pilot, ask him the same question. Ask any of the Reds how many hours a month they averaged last year. Ask any of Beagle's vintage how many hours a month they used to do, and whether or not they think they would be as comfortable doing the current hours. I an sure that you will have read National Audit Office report on Military Flying Training 2015 which, although three years old, tells a sorry tale of seven years from joining the RAF to getting combat ready. I'm not say that the report is pleasant, I'm not even saying it's accurate, as much like some AAIB stuff I have been reading recently, the (lack of) attention to detail is shocking, and the numbers don't always add up.

Even so, despite all of the promises and money that has been committed to the new world order in training, the RAF are certainly no better off. The flying hours have been cut for the students, the duration of training has been cut and people are arriving at the OCU without the same level of experience that they used to have. Most shocking in that for me, was that the Audit discovered that the failings and lack of experience, was not a culture that was being recorded or fed back.

Here we are 11 years after the contract was awarded, and even you couldn't honestly say that it has gone well.

Three years since that report came out, a rethink of how the business would manage to turn things around, a collection of new plans and timetables.. here we are, still short of bodies and a backlog in the holding system.

I recall a time when the output from the OCU was the best of the people who had applied. Nowadays it looks like it might just be those who have had the patience to stick around long enough.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 11:39
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Airpolice

Fair enough. I shall concede. I have nothing left to say on the issue.

All I can say is that my logbook for the last year looks pretty healthy.

BV

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