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How true?

Old 23rd Jul 2018, 07:19
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How true?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6836065/ministry-of-defence-thomas-cooke-jet2-holidays/amp/

i know there is always a bit of journalistic exaggeration but when you hear of some of the delays a d travel woes experienced.......
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 08:27
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Maybe 3 or 4 years late but it's true as is everything is true that the Sun right's is true,

Gotcha RAF making money on the side by ripping of Brits going on holiday.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 08:41
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Utter drivel from The Sun... But then it did originate in the Mail on Sunday.

The RAF's AAR capability is obtained through the bolleaux of PFI at a cost of over £1M per day from AirTanker, which owns the aircraft. A small number of A330 aircraft surplus to the RAF's immediate requirements is available for third party revenue purposes, such as bucket-and-spading for Thomas Cook and Jet2.

At least the massive and expensive AirTanker facility at Brize is brand new - no longer do the AAR squadrons have to operate from decaying WW2-era hovels. The aircraft are kept in 'as new' condition and are pristine.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 09:08
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What are the markings on these aircraft?
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 09:44
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
What are the markings on these aircraft?
Standard airline livery with Civ reg.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 09:51
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Gotcha RAF making money on the side by ripping of Brits going on holiday.
The shareholders of Rolls Royce, Thales, Cobbam, Babcock and Airbus make the money on the side, the RAF donít! Air Tanker make a profit just from the RAF aircraft, the 3rd party leased aircraft is pretty much all profit.

The 3rd party G registered leased aircraft are in whatever livery and cabin fit the company (jet2) etc want. Obviously the RAF ones on the MAR are in military colours as you would expect.

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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 09:51
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
What are the markings on these aircraft?
This is ZZ343

https://www.v1images.com/product/g-v...rbus-a330-243/
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 09:57
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Originally Posted by Door Slider View Post


The shareholders of Rolls Royce, Thales, Cobbam, Babcock and Airbus make the money on the side, the RAF donít! Air Tanker make a profit just from the RAF aircraft, the 3rd party leased aircraft is pretty much all profit.

The 3rd party G registered leased aircraft are in whatever livery and cabin fit the company (jet2) etc want. Obviously the RAF ones on the MAR are in military colours as you would expect.

Plus G-VGGJ is in a civillianised version of the RAF scheme (with AirTanker titling) and is used on the South Atlantic air bridge, trooping flights etc
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 11:03
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Leasing the 'spare' aircraft was always the intention and was included in the initial bid, so this is really old news.

As always they never compare like with like. The cost of the aircraft covers the operating costs over the term of the PFI and not just a straight purchase.

Doesn't make it cheap though.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 11:10
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What the papers didn't mention was the ludicrous expense of having the aircraft built and configured as tankers, and then flown directly to another facility to be reconfigured immediately for Thomas Cook, which is what I believe happened with the first "civilianised" AT 330.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 11:52
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A slightly different angle in The Times today.
Holiday firms leasing jets that cost RAF millions
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 12:05
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I am waiting for the cabin PA announcement that informs the pax that their holiday in the sun will be slightly delayed whilst we refuel four Typhoons during the journey.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 12:27
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How true?
Very, as was always intended.
Take a look at the AirTanker website (airtanker.co.uk/leasing)
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 13:08
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Originally Posted by camelspyyder View Post
What the papers didn't mention was the ludicrous expense of having the aircraft built and configured as tankers, and then flown directly to another facility to be reconfigured immediately for Thomas Cook, which is what I believe happened with the first "civilianised" AT 330.
No - not ridiculous - they were bought as tankers and we'd have looked REALLY dumb if a couple of months after delivery we'd needed them and then had to do the conversion

Sure it costs to have the capability - renting them out was never supposed to cover those costs - just reduce them while still having the aircraft if we need them
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 13:09
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Frustratingly, PPRuNe blocks part of this link - so replace the * with an o and you'll find some reasoned discussion of this.

The "news" organisations we rely on really are poor these days.
https://thinpinstripedline.bl*gspot....on-sunday.html

Last edited by BossEyed; 23rd Jul 2018 at 14:00. Reason: Poor sentence construction
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 13:33
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A good example of where the current set up works is taking place just now (I believe). RAF Voyagers are going through an IFF update programme which takes a couple of months and is being completed one airframe at a time.

The MoD doesnít lose any capability as one of the aircraft available for 3rd party is brought back into core therefore maintaining the fleet size while updates happen.

However, the PFI is chuffing expensive!!!!
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 09:43
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Originally Posted by Door Slider View Post
A good example of where the current set up works is taking place just now (I believe). RAF Voyagers are going through an IFF update programme which takes a couple of months and is being completed one airframe at a time.

The MoD doesnít lose any capability as one of the aircraft available for 3rd party is brought back into core therefore maintaining the fleet size while updates happen.
Does the aircraft get repainted each time it is 'brought back to core' or will we see Thomas Cook with a Typhoon on each wing?
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 11:19
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I am waiting for the cabin PA announcement that informs the pax that their holiday in the sun will be slightly delayed whilst we refuel four Typhoons during the journey.
I recall many years ago an American lady I knew telling me that when on a trooping flight from Germany to the US in a KC135 the aircraft had carried out AAR during the flight. I always thought this was pretty unlikely, and assumed she had probably dreamt it during an inflight nap, but could it have happened? Does anyone on here familiar with the type know if her story might have been true?
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 11:25
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
I recall many years ago an American lady I knew telling me that when on a trooping flight from Germany to the US in a KC135 the aircraft had carried out AAR during the flight. I always thought this was pretty unlikely, and assumed she had probably dreamt it during an inflight nap, but could it have happened? Does anyone on here familiar with the type know if her story might have been true?
TTN, in the late 80s there was a massive AD operation. 4 pairs of Bear Foxtrot penetrated the UKADR before returning via the Denmark Strait. Northern and southern Q were launched as well as tanker support. A T* trooper returning from Cyprus had give away and was diverted to top up the 10s.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 17:22
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Have Air Tanker fitted a Boom to any of their fleet yet? Seems a bit daft that a number of RAF aircraft types reliant on just boom re-fuelling while the most expensive PFI deal ever fails to deliver.
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