WW2, what if Hitler had started in 1938
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WW2, what if Hitler had started in 1938
There have been lots of discussions on WW2, with one on JB if Hitler had won. What if he had invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1938?
Clearly the RAF would not have been as ready in Sep 1939. Would Britain have declared war or perhaps remained non-belligerent?
Clearly the RAF would not have been as ready in Sep 1939. Would Britain have declared war or perhaps remained non-belligerent?
As the pact between France, UK and Poland wasn't in force until March '39 there would be no requirement for Anglo French support for Poland. Whether Chamberlain's pronouncement of peace in our time would look more hollow?
For my money the real difference would be the timing of the invasion of France and subsequent loss of equipment at Dunkirk which eventually resulted in US support via lend lease.
For my money the real difference would be the timing of the invasion of France and subsequent loss of equipment at Dunkirk which eventually resulted in US support via lend lease.
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If anything Hitler went too soon - if he'd waited to 1940 or 41 he'd have had an almost fully mechanised Army, a much bigger navy and an Air Force testing jet aircraft
No doubt we'd have slept on with Mr Chamberlain still at the helm.....................
No doubt we'd have slept on with Mr Chamberlain still at the helm.....................
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ISTR that Albert Speer's autobiography mentioned the general intent to wait a couple more years before kicking off for that very reason. However, Mr Hitler couldn't wait to start more invading.
I think one needs to remember the Molotov-Ribbentrop Non Agression pact. That allowed the Germans a ‘free hand’ in Poland ,with the Russians taking spoils in eastern Poland and having spheres of influence in the Baltic.This wasn’t explored until late 38 and signed in August 39,literally one week before the start of WW2. I think more importantly, Germany wasn’t ready for war economically in 1938, despite all it’s blustering. The German generals knew this and they needed Russian commodities to address shortfalls. A further agreement for goods was signed in February 1940. Bizarrely, Germany got half its oil from Mexico pre 39 and any naval blockade would have soon ended that source.
It was Russian oil that powered the Luftwaffe, if not during the Battle of Britain, then definitely during the Blitz.
It was Russian oil that powered the Luftwaffe, if not during the Battle of Britain, then definitely during the Blitz.
If you search on Amazon, there's quite a lot of 'Alternative History' available. Writers like James Phillip and Stuart Slade offer reasonable plots to follow.
Stuart Slade's series of a Britain that came out of the war in 1940, and the aftermath are quite entertaining. James Phillip starts his alternative world with some very loud bangs over Cuba in 1962.....
Stuart Slade's series of a Britain that came out of the war in 1940, and the aftermath are quite entertaining. James Phillip starts his alternative world with some very loud bangs over Cuba in 1962.....
I think the PM and cabinet ought to reflect on Churchills words today as Conservative party politics threatens the whole nations well being.
Lots of interesting ideas about WW2 , The Czechs had a powerful and very modern army in 1938 and some very comprehensive border defences. Thier view is that if UK and France had attacker Germany in the Rhineland the Czechs from the South east and the generals would have dumped Adolf .
However its always easy to be wise after the event and there are so many ifs, could a 90% Hurricane RAF have won the BoB if it happened in 1938.
Did Chamberlains prevarication actually rescue s giving us time to get rganised
We will never know
Lots of interesting ideas about WW2 , The Czechs had a powerful and very modern army in 1938 and some very comprehensive border defences. Thier view is that if UK and France had attacker Germany in the Rhineland the Czechs from the South east and the generals would have dumped Adolf .
However its always easy to be wise after the event and there are so many ifs, could a 90% Hurricane RAF have won the BoB if it happened in 1938.
Did Chamberlains prevarication actually rescue s giving us time to get rganised
We will never know
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PB, more Hurricanes, more kills, faster turnaround time and arguably the more flexible airframe.
MPN11:-
He couldn't, because he desperately needed to plunder the central bank gold reserves of those invaded countries. He is credited with having pulled off an economic miracle by putting Germany back to work. In reality he (and the Reichsbank) fiddled the books and if he didn't get his hands on more plunder very soon then it would all come unravelled in his hands. Of course he had already started the process by stripping his Jews of everything they possessed and then moved on to do the same with the Jews of every country he occupied, even to the extent of using their very bodies for enhancing the war effort. I wouldn't mind betting that a good deal of that plunder still presides in the bank vaults of neutral Switzerland...
Mr Hitler couldn't wait to start more invading.
Don't forget the Spanish Civil War was still ongoing in 1938. The Me109 went straight from trials to the conflict and these were lower powered versions. It wasn't until December1938 that the 109E became available for use in Spain. Are we suggesting the BoB of 1938 was fought on the same terms as in 1940? If so the earlier 109s may not have been up to the job!
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Rolling, that s the sort of question I was asking. Clearly the RAF would have been more reliant on Hurricanes. Then the numbers game.
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Chugalug2 
Thanks, an interesting dimension which tends to be missed when we’re all doing “dagga-dagga”. Such practicalities tend to get missed in the noise of HE!
Thanks, an interesting dimension which tends to be missed when we’re all doing “dagga-dagga”. Such practicalities tend to get missed in the noise of HE!
Well, by the mid-summer of 1938 the RAF still had only received just 50 Hurricanes into service, all with 2-bladed Watts prop....so the RAF would have been heavily reliant on its Gladiators and Fury biplane's.
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Geeram, but it was a year after the war started that Germany was in a position to invade UK.
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An interesting read is Ulrich Steinhilper’s autobiographical ‘A Spitfire On My Tail.’ A Luftwaffe fighter pilot leading up to the Battle of Britain and ultimately shot down during it, he gives a fascinating account of the Luftwaffe before the war and in the early stages.
its staggering how unsophisticated they were - radios in planes were regarded with suspicion by Galland and the old Spanish hands. Mechanisation on the ground was sparse and coordination between units was poor.
I would agree with the comments that another couple of years would have seen them almost invincible but an earlier start? I don’t think they had the resources to have made it work.
its staggering how unsophisticated they were - radios in planes were regarded with suspicion by Galland and the old Spanish hands. Mechanisation on the ground was sparse and coordination between units was poor.
I would agree with the comments that another couple of years would have seen them almost invincible but an earlier start? I don’t think they had the resources to have made it work.
I am not sure what was the lesser of two evils. The conflict that was WW2, or no conflict and Von Braun perfected the V2 and it was potentially fitted with an atomic warhead?
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Even in wartime the German atomic bomb project was far behind that of the Allies west AND east. Under peacetime rules I think it would have been a nonstarter.