Hunter endurance anybody?
Best was Binbrook in 1961, the team arrived at about 1220, SWO saw a line of black cars coming down the main drag to SHQ and said "Didn't thing there was a funeral today. Oh (expletive deleted) It's Taceval!" And it was, a Pt 1 allegedly designed to catch a certain stn cdr. In fact the team pulled together and did very well. Memorable day as when it finished about 2100 I got a call to say Mum had suffered another stroke and I made it to Mt Vernon Hospital Northwood in under 3 hours and she died 10 mins after I got there.
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Tengah Type I think that you are being very optimistic with your reaction times and having a bunch of sleepy disgruntled armourers at the line 'in a few minutes' is unrealistic. I would say at least 30' from initially rounding them up and that would in itself be remarkable. As to the ready-prepped gunpacks, these would have been loaded with practice rounds i.e. ball and from what I recall from my time at Chivenor and Brawdy only two guns were ever pre-loaded. Even in those days where the words Health & Safety were yet to be thought up, it is inconceivable to me that, in peacetime, gunpacks would have been stored with HE ammunition as a matter of course. However, someone better placed may correct me.
All in all, taking into account the time of day, the chain of command, the ancient comms system and human reaction times, I cannot see a Chivenor Hunter being ready in less than an hour from the first moment that the US called for help even if they did so which is open to question. By this time the horse had well and truly bolted..
All in all, taking into account the time of day, the chain of command, the ancient comms system and human reaction times, I cannot see a Chivenor Hunter being ready in less than an hour from the first moment that the US called for help even if they did so which is open to question. By this time the horse had well and truly bolted..
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Indeed, MPN11 . I doubt whether the threat posed by Mebyon Kernow forces would have required Chivenor Hunters to be armed overnight with the gun fuses pulled.....
Yes, of course I meant Chivenor. Confused myself with reading BEagle's post#28 about banging off tanks at Brawdy, as he is always banging on about his time there.
NIPVA #39 Disgruntled armourers? - never!!
DODGYOLDFART. This is more like the Airforce of that time that I remember. A lot could be acheived in a short time with a bit of good will.
In June 65, 45 Squadron was detached from Tengah to Labuan as Tengah runway was being rebuilt. We were stood down for the day with no kind of Standby requirement. So we obtained a couple of raiding craft and took them off to another island a few miles away for a day of snorkelling and Tiger drinking. At about 1630 a Whirlwind suddenly arrived ,piloted by the Sqn Cdr wearing a red beach shirt and flipflops, and landed two wheels on the beach. Out of the back jumps Sqn Ldr Ops in a blue beach shirt and flipflops to hand our Boss a signal. The Boss orders his crew. all in swimming costumes, into the helo and the rest of us to return to Labuan ASAP. We raced back finishing our beers as we went. When we hit the beach the Boss was there to order 4 crews to fly to Tengah ASAP with a fifth crew on the Rumble seats. We all climbed into/on one LWB Land Rover and drove to the airport. We put on Flying Suits over our swimming trunks, grabbed razors and toothbrushes and went to the aircraft as fast as we could. The first pair took off at 1730 with the other pair a few minutes later.. Landing back at Tengah on the Taxiway with the help of gooseneck flares. A few groundcrew were still at Tengah so they turned and armed the aircraft and we took up 30 minutes Standby in the crewroom.
The sudden flap was because HQ FEAF thought that the Indonesian missile firing boats might have a crack at HMS Eagle, and we were there to stop them if they did.
Three days later, in slow time, we returned to Labuan.
NIPVA #39 Disgruntled armourers? - never!!
DODGYOLDFART. This is more like the Airforce of that time that I remember. A lot could be acheived in a short time with a bit of good will.
In June 65, 45 Squadron was detached from Tengah to Labuan as Tengah runway was being rebuilt. We were stood down for the day with no kind of Standby requirement. So we obtained a couple of raiding craft and took them off to another island a few miles away for a day of snorkelling and Tiger drinking. At about 1630 a Whirlwind suddenly arrived ,piloted by the Sqn Cdr wearing a red beach shirt and flipflops, and landed two wheels on the beach. Out of the back jumps Sqn Ldr Ops in a blue beach shirt and flipflops to hand our Boss a signal. The Boss orders his crew. all in swimming costumes, into the helo and the rest of us to return to Labuan ASAP. We raced back finishing our beers as we went. When we hit the beach the Boss was there to order 4 crews to fly to Tengah ASAP with a fifth crew on the Rumble seats. We all climbed into/on one LWB Land Rover and drove to the airport. We put on Flying Suits over our swimming trunks, grabbed razors and toothbrushes and went to the aircraft as fast as we could. The first pair took off at 1730 with the other pair a few minutes later.. Landing back at Tengah on the Taxiway with the help of gooseneck flares. A few groundcrew were still at Tengah so they turned and armed the aircraft and we took up 30 minutes Standby in the crewroom.
The sudden flap was because HQ FEAF thought that the Indonesian missile firing boats might have a crack at HMS Eagle, and we were there to stop them if they did.
Three days later, in slow time, we returned to Labuan.
Sorry, Tengah Type , but part of that tale is clearly bolleaux!
Finishing your beer I can certainly believe - but you racing anywhere I simply cannot....
I was lucky enough to do TWU twice - i
We raced back finishing our beers as we went.
I was lucky enough to do TWU twice - i
BEagle
I was referring to the speed of the boats. I was sitting down at the time.!
Cheeky sod. Any more of that and I might post a photo of "Dad Dancing" at Bermuda.!!
I was referring to the speed of the boats. I was sitting down at the time.!
Cheeky sod. Any more of that and I might post a photo of "Dad Dancing" at Bermuda.!!
Dodgyoldfart. ''So potentially four aircraft could have been ready to go in about 4 to 5 minutes. This is all conjecture mind but aircraft were certainly left armed over night in RAF Germany''
I am not doubting or gainsaying the overnight loading of gunpacks. The point that I was trying to make was that such preloaded gunpacks were only loaded with ball, not HE, and that I would have thought this alleged use of a Chivenor a/c would have required HE ammo.
I am not doubting or gainsaying the overnight loading of gunpacks. The point that I was trying to make was that such preloaded gunpacks were only loaded with ball, not HE, and that I would have thought this alleged use of a Chivenor a/c would have required HE ammo.
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Dodgyoldfart. ''So potentially four aircraft could have been ready to go in about 4 to 5 minutes. This is all conjecture mind but aircraft were certainly left armed over night in RAF Germany''
I am not doubting or gainsaying the overnight loading of gunpacks. The point that I was trying to make was that such preloaded gunpacks were only loaded with ball, not HE, and that I would have thought this alleged use of a Chivenor a/c would have required HE ammo.
I am not doubting or gainsaying the overnight loading of gunpacks. The point that I was trying to make was that such preloaded gunpacks were only loaded with ball, not HE, and that I would have thought this alleged use of a Chivenor a/c would have required HE ammo.
Incidentally back in the day the most effective round fired from 20mm Hispano was the semi-armour piercing incendiary not the HE. This round retained enough energy to smash the block of the German Junkers Jumo 211 engine at 400 meters and would also penetrate the roof armour of the Panzer Mk 4 at a similar range.
Back in the 1950's in RAF Germany the Hunters normally flew with full gun packs of ball although the ammunition was not loaded into the guns ready to fire. During Battle Flight the ball was exchanged for HE and ready to fire.
Last edited by DODGYOLDFART; 29th Jun 2018 at 16:35.
