Veterans To Be 'Formally Recognised With Official ID Cards'
One day soon, when the many stop fearing the few, the few will need to fear the many. That's what it will take for the UK Government to actually appreciate those who serve, and have served in the military.
Concur about the term "veteran". That's an old car isn't it, and a vet is someone I take my dog to when she need attention. I'm an ex serviceman, and Mrs TTN is an ex servicewoman. Perhaps we can be ex servicepersons!
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Does one really want a big V on ones driving licence when renting a car in an "enemy" country? Are we not opening ourselves up to risk? As a Falklands Vet, I wouldn't like to advertise this fact in Argentina for example!
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Tankertrashnav (#61),
This excerpt from my Page 120, #3298 on "Pilots brevet" may amuse
and this:
In Customs & Excise (as then was, and where I earned an honest crust to augment my pension)), you started as an Officer of C & E: after four years service, if you'd kept your nose clean and impressed your superiors, you could be placed on a "vetted list" from which you could "bid" for promotion into any Senior Officer post falling vacant in tne UK that no one senior to you wanted.
Was on it myself, but the only posts on offer were "in the smoke" and so graciously declined... As in the RAF, I remained a "bottom feeder" to the end of my days ("he started at the bottom and liked it there").
Danny.
...Fair enough, as long as people don't want to start shaking me by the hand and "thanking me for my service" as seems to be the practice now in the US...
...And we were the "blue-eyed boys". A little of it rubbed off on me one morning. I was trotting along in Liverpool with my new wings and sergeant's stripes. I can remember exactly where I was - by the side of Lewis's, opposite the Adelphi. A dear little old lady buttonholed me: "GOD BLESS YOU, MY BOY", she quavered (surprisingly loudly). Passers-by murmured approval. Liverpudlians wouldn't see all that many aircrew at that stage of the war, so I suppose I stuck out a bit. Naturally shy, I was dumb with embarrassment, but managed to stammer a few words of thanks. I hadn't even flown my first "op", but Liverpool had taken two year's battering from the Luftwaffe, so I suppose I looked like a possible St.George for their dragon. I'll never forget that day.
I was posted to Bournemouth, another Transit Camp, in a seaside hotel - had been a rather swish one, I think, but can't recall the name. Here the natives were well used to seeing aircrew and old ladies did not greet you with little glad cries - nor young ones either, come to that, (the Yanks were in town)...
I was posted to Bournemouth, another Transit Camp, in a seaside hotel - had been a rather swish one, I think, but can't recall the name. Here the natives were well used to seeing aircrew and old ladies did not greet you with little glad cries - nor young ones either, come to that, (the Yanks were in town)...
...Concur about the term "veteran". That's an old car is...n't it, and a vet is someone I take my dog to when she need attention...
Was on it myself, but the only posts on offer were "in the smoke" and so graciously declined... As in the RAF, I remained a "bottom feeder" to the end of my days ("he started at the bottom and liked it there").
Danny.
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I cannot see that when you leave the services and hand in your ID, they couldn't hand you a replacement for your ID card that allows you to possibly use the facilities / shopping etc, similar to the current one, but with "Retired" emblasoned across it.. Simple and probably really cheaper to administer. After all if they are going to start doing driving licences ( and ID's for those without one,) surely the easiest system is at your point of departure, I realise it would only work for those still serving, but it would probably be a cheaper option. ....
Or is that too sensible?.
Or is that too sensible?.
Danny - if I had met you in Liverpool after their "blitz" I daresay I would have joined in the handshaking - and quite right too!
In my case, however, if anybody wants to thank me for my service I hope they realise that a lot of it consisted of trips to pleasant places in the sunshine, with nobody firing at me en route. My total experience of being under fire consisted of being around the corner when a grenade was chucked during an operation I was on in Aden (nobody hurt). I distinctly remember sitting beside the hotel pool on a long weekend in Las Vegas and asking the rest of the crew if they realised we were getting paid for this!
No handshakes required!
In my case, however, if anybody wants to thank me for my service I hope they realise that a lot of it consisted of trips to pleasant places in the sunshine, with nobody firing at me en route. My total experience of being under fire consisted of being around the corner when a grenade was chucked during an operation I was on in Aden (nobody hurt). I distinctly remember sitting beside the hotel pool on a long weekend in Las Vegas and asking the rest of the crew if they realised we were getting paid for this!
No handshakes required!
All of us drawing military pensions are in known postal locations,including those of us overseas. Indeed, I get phoned up from time to time, to confirm that I am still alive.
What is so bloody difficult in putting a card in the post?
What is so bloody difficult in putting a card in the post?
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They must be quite worried about you. I left 23 years ago and no-one's ever phoned or written to ask how I'm getting on...
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They are probably still trying to forget you...
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TTN,
Nice of you to draw the distinction - but even in war it is a truism that life consists of "95% boredom and 5% sheer terror", and I hadn't got as far as the terror bit when you would've been shaking my hand.
And I've repeatedly made clear that our Burma Vultee Vengeance operations were the safest imaginable: with few exceptions everyone killed in a VV had killed himslf (accidentally, of course), and mostly in training.
As wars go, I suppose I had a "soft"one, but then: "we each had to fight the war we were given" was one of the most profound statements about war ever made. You had to be happy with whatever cards Fate had dealt you. I was one of the lucky ones.
Nevertheless I am content to be a "veteran" - if only on account of my great age !
Danny.
Nice of you to draw the distinction - but even in war it is a truism that life consists of "95% boredom and 5% sheer terror", and I hadn't got as far as the terror bit when you would've been shaking my hand.
And I've repeatedly made clear that our Burma Vultee Vengeance operations were the safest imaginable: with few exceptions everyone killed in a VV had killed himslf (accidentally, of course), and mostly in training.
As wars go, I suppose I had a "soft"one, but then: "we each had to fight the war we were given" was one of the most profound statements about war ever made. You had to be happy with whatever cards Fate had dealt you. I was one of the lucky ones.
Nevertheless I am content to be a "veteran" - if only on account of my great age !
Danny.
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Soft war, blimey, I would hate to see a hard one. I take my hat off to you Sir. I would imagine having to force land anywhere in Burma would be a hazard in itself, even without the enemy... By the way, you didnt happen to see them burying some Spitfires did you?
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NutLoose (#70),
The "Great Buried Burma Spitfire Delusion" (I will not say "hoax", for the originator was plainly sincere, having "put his money where his mouth was"), cries out for psychological explanation (perhaps someone should write a Ph.D thesis on it).
If you Google > Buried Spitfires in Burma, take the website: "Spitfires in Burma: the lost Burmese Spitfires - British Airshows", there is a fair account of this strange story. It is wholly improbable (nothing is impossible) for several reasons. We were the Government of Burma till mid 1948. This was supposed to have happened in 1945. If something on this scale had taken place, there would be official record of it. And who or what could possibly benefit from such a burial and subsequent exhumation ? (the "Cui Bono ?" argument). Admittedly, there were a lot of Mk.IVs in use out there by the IAF and others of various Marks in Europe at the war's end, and we supplied many other airforces. But most of the surplus (of all Marks) was put to the axe (what a pity !)
I was in India until March 1946 (although I'd left Burma in summer 1944), and there was never a word about any such "burial" at the time they were supposed to have taken place. Nothing has been found since. We have to conclude, sadly, that it was only a pipe dream !
But what a dream ! It had everything - the "buried treasure" aspect, the (seemingly) plausible story to back it up. When it first hit the headlines in 2012, there was a "willing suspension of disbelief" all round. Even I (I'm ashamed to say), Posted a couple of times on "Aviation History and Nostalgia", with possible scenarios for a 1942 burial (after the loss of Singapore) and a 1945/6 one of Mk.XIVs. Must've been daft ! Mass hysteria, I suppose - but it was grand while it lasted !
Danny.
..."By the way, you didnt happen to see them burying some Spitfires did you?"...
If you Google > Buried Spitfires in Burma, take the website: "Spitfires in Burma: the lost Burmese Spitfires - British Airshows", there is a fair account of this strange story. It is wholly improbable (nothing is impossible) for several reasons. We were the Government of Burma till mid 1948. This was supposed to have happened in 1945. If something on this scale had taken place, there would be official record of it. And who or what could possibly benefit from such a burial and subsequent exhumation ? (the "Cui Bono ?" argument). Admittedly, there were a lot of Mk.IVs in use out there by the IAF and others of various Marks in Europe at the war's end, and we supplied many other airforces. But most of the surplus (of all Marks) was put to the axe (what a pity !)
I was in India until March 1946 (although I'd left Burma in summer 1944), and there was never a word about any such "burial" at the time they were supposed to have taken place. Nothing has been found since. We have to conclude, sadly, that it was only a pipe dream !
But what a dream ! It had everything - the "buried treasure" aspect, the (seemingly) plausible story to back it up. When it first hit the headlines in 2012, there was a "willing suspension of disbelief" all round. Even I (I'm ashamed to say), Posted a couple of times on "Aviation History and Nostalgia", with possible scenarios for a 1942 burial (after the loss of Singapore) and a 1945/6 one of Mk.XIVs. Must've been daft ! Mass hysteria, I suppose - but it was grand while it lasted !
Danny.
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How far back are they intending to recognise past service? One of those ideas which is great until you look at the details. Past police service for instance, I can see major potential issues with allowing the kind of cosy relationship (inUS)described in the post above
... but what would make you want to go back on your average RAF station?
Chap I know who formerly commanded a major operational station tried to organise a trip to the station for a coach load of former aircrew and groundcrew who had served there, to see what was currently going on. He thought it might involve a quick stop at the guardroom where he would hand a list of visitors in and maybe pick up a guide for the trip. No chance. Every member of the party would have to disembark and individually get issued with a pass, probably taking half an hour at least - this could not be done in advance. The restrictions placed on what could happen on the visit were such that in the end he thought - sod it, and scrapped the whole idea.
I know I have previously stated that I don't think my former service should entitle me to any enhanced status in the civilian world, but when a recently retired group captain gets no better treatment than a teacher bringing a bunch of schoolkids on a visit (which I did to St Mawgan when I was teaching) then I think something is wrong.
Incidentally last year I had a look at the station referred to above. I wanted to photograph their "gate guardian" which in fact wasn't clearly visible from the gate. I asked the armed guard if he would mind if I walked a few yards past him to get a decent view for the photo. I told him not to worry, I wouldn't try and get into the station. He said "I'm not worried, if you try that I'll just shoot you"
I think he was joking!
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
TTN. I had a similar experience a couple of months ago. I saw the man at the gate and pointed out that I wouldn't be more than about 50 yards from him, and in sight at all times. No luck. A couple of weeks later I went again, at a weekend. No problem. In fact, once I produced my logbook, showing I had flown the type, we got into conversation, and he accompanied me while I got what I wanted. Depends who is on duty I guess, plus the fact that during the week SHQ is pretty close, and who knows the eyes that might see?
Have to say that Wyton handled the 360 Reunion in Oct 16 extremely well. Booking in and parking very easy and relaxed, all prefixed arranged by extremely efficient event organiser. Mess central heating still too hot though, after 23 years!
No need for a DDS card for those in the Regulars/Reserves as a MOD90 (the new F1250 for those aged RAF types) works fine in the Apple Store, Yo Sushi, Costa, etc...etc...
On the ID card subject I always though that it made sense to issue a card to everyone that left with Regular Reserve commitment under RFA80 or RFA96. The expiry date of that card would be the date that the commitment to re-called back to the Service expires. That way, the individual knows when their Regular Reserve commitment ends - broadly speaking for those that retired without a pension it is 6 years and for those that did it is age 55/60 (there are many variations inbetween). As a member of that group then individuals are still de facto Reserves and should be allowed to remain Mess Members and access the Clubs/Assocs if they wish to.
LJ
On the ID card subject I always though that it made sense to issue a card to everyone that left with Regular Reserve commitment under RFA80 or RFA96. The expiry date of that card would be the date that the commitment to re-called back to the Service expires. That way, the individual knows when their Regular Reserve commitment ends - broadly speaking for those that retired without a pension it is 6 years and for those that did it is age 55/60 (there are many variations inbetween). As a member of that group then individuals are still de facto Reserves and should be allowed to remain Mess Members and access the Clubs/Assocs if they wish to.
LJ
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
After I retired but with my RAFR 1250, I was driving north with wife and mother in law and around lunch time we were nearing Leeming. Lunch I thought.
We swung in, I signed the car in at the guardroom, and thence to the Mess for a splendid lunch. Now that is what it should mean.
Or years before when main gates, even on bomber bases were not manned, former stn cdr, not an honour member, used to drop in to the Mess - one Johnnie Johnson.
If, over night, the rules changed, how many Pprunerati would use their new right? Maybe to use their previous Mess or Club for a year or so while their previous mates were still there, but how many would remain Klingons?
We swung in, I signed the car in at the guardroom, and thence to the Mess for a splendid lunch. Now that is what it should mean.
Or years before when main gates, even on bomber bases were not manned, former stn cdr, not an honour member, used to drop in to the Mess - one Johnnie Johnson.
If, over night, the rules changed, how many Pprunerati would use their new right? Maybe to use their previous Mess or Club for a year or so while their previous mates were still there, but how many would remain Klingons?