Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Refueling Over Afghanistan? There’s An App For That

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Refueling Over Afghanistan? There’s An App For That

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 1st Dec 2017, 12:15
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Under a recently defunct flight path.
Age: 77
Posts: 1,375
Received 21 Likes on 13 Posts
Refueling Over Afghanistan? There’s An App For That

U.S. Air Force uses ‘Jigsaw’ to help streamline tanker planning in the air campaign against ISIS

Snip from the Aviation Week article:-
When Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google parent company Alphabet, visited the U.S. military’s air operations center here as part of a tour of U.S. bases in the Middle East, he was shocked to discover the Air Force used a 7-ft. dry-erase board to plan the elaborate daily process of refueling aircraft involved in the campaign against Islamic State militants.

“He saw the whiteboard, and his jaw dropped,” says Capt. Gary Olkowski, air refueling control team deputy chief at the Combined Air Operations Center (CAOC) at Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar. “He says: ‘Alright, there is a better way to do this.’”
Obviously helps to have friends in high places / financial clout etc.
Lyneham Lad is online now  
Old 1st Dec 2017, 12:25
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 4 Civvy Street. Nowhere-near-a-base. The Shires.
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Having once chased the only drogue tanker sausage side all over the bloody map when it wasn't within 200 miles of the briefed towline I'd like the app please.
camelspyyder is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2017, 12:25
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A white board is great - everyone can see it, it's not dependent on electricity or dodgy computers, you can't hack it, it doesn't require training to use it, it's cheap, recyclable and it's a LOT bigger than the average PC screen

Often people deploy technology because they think it's modern rather than because the old ways aren't working
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2017, 12:54
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,207
Received 405 Likes on 251 Posts
Thank you Harry, for summing up my response to that Silicon Valley ******.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2017, 16:23
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lady Harry spent half her life in IT trying to STOP people from going to a high tech solution "because it was there"

I'm currently arguing with a client who wants a"hi tech electronic white board" - someone suggested it would be easier to use the manual version and just all take a picture on our mobile phones once we'd agreed..............
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2017, 16:38
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Is there a PLAN!?

OAP
Onceapilot is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2017, 16:53
  #7 (permalink)  
ImageGear
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Aye, Aye - if it 'ain't broke, don't fix it.

I guess everyone has come across the white boards that allow you to sketch and write at will and then print off the contents of the board to a sheet of A4. It sat for years in a corner of a little used conference room before being dragged away one night and buried in a skip. No mourning, no requiem, just faded into obscurity. Mobile phone cameras did for it.

Imagegear
 
Old 1st Dec 2017, 17:05
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North Up
Posts: 489
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Black Buck

Now there was a fuel plan!

All done with a 4-function pocket calculator and a lot of intelligent thinking. Oh, and bits of papers and several biros.

Cazalet33 is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2017, 17:22
  #9 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,423
Received 1,593 Likes on 730 Posts
On the other hand it lends itself to being able to allow those requesting AAR to do real time updates to requests; to do what if planning on the fly without another white board which can be circulated for inputs before being incorporated; to show locked in segments for those Ready airborne (so they don’t end up chasing 200nm across country for tankers that aren’t there; it allows almost immediate incorporation into the ATO and changes; electronic transfer to other media for exchange; and of course storage of the original plan and all messages and changes so that it is available for investigation if something goes wrong.

Apart from that, the whiteboard is better....
ORAC is online now  
Old 1st Dec 2017, 17:31
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Suffolk
Age: 65
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Back in the day the USAF crews would book their F-111s into the Tac Route and be told 'you will overtake a Jet Provost between EP X and EP Y. They were convinced that the RAF had some pretty heavyweight computing power in the 1970s.

Apparently their faces were a picture on visits to the cell when they saw the perspex boards with time/EP graphs and the chinagraph lines crossing at the overtake point.
99 Change Hands is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 05:59
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pah - you want to see an old railway Timetabling diagram for Victoria Station routes....................... all done by hand on graph paper
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 08:39
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hiq et Ubique
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
On the other hand it lends itself to being able to allow those requesting AAR to do real time updates to requests; to do what if planning on the fly without another white board which can be circulated for inputs before being incorporated; to show locked in segments for those Ready airborne (so they don’t end up chasing 200nm across country for tankers that aren’t there; it allows almost immediate incorporation into the ATO and changes; electronic transfer to other media for exchange; and of course storage of the original plan and all messages and changes so that it is available for investigation if something goes wrong.
Then someone turns the power off............

Off to plan my sortie; now where's my Dalton gone.......?
MAD Boom is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 09:04
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
Age: 65
Posts: 1,805
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
All done with a 4-function pocket calculator and a lot of intelligent thinking. Oh, and bits of papers and several biros
Don't forget string, there had to be string.
Alex Whittingham is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 09:27
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Fletcher Memorial Home
Age: 59
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whiteboards are great, until someone leans on it and scuffs off the work. The culprit is usually easy to find from the red/blue/black/green marks on their shoulders or back....
Ogre is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 09:59
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 77
Posts: 3,896
Received 16 Likes on 4 Posts
Don't forget string, there had to be string.
I remember seeing a film of how they used to plan railway timetables along routes. with each train's "path" shown by a length of string stretched across a lot of pins on a big sheet of paper. As long as no two lengths of string crossed, all was well!
Tankertrashnav is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 11:02
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav
I remember seeing a film of how they used to plan railway timetables along routes. with each train's "path" shown by a length of string stretched across a lot of pins on a big sheet of paper. As long as no two lengths of string crossed, all was well!
Yes and when using graph paper they pre-formed templates for each type of train with the correct accel/deaccel/ cruising speed. Just place on paper and draw line...
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 11:45
  #17 (permalink)  
ICM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bishops Stortford, UK
Age: 82
Posts: 469
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
For those who can remember "Flow Control" running the numbers of transport aircraft allowed through Akrotiri, Gan etc - that was done using a variety of wooden blocks in a frame.
ICM is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 13:16
  #18 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,423
Received 1,593 Likes on 730 Posts
Then someone turns the power off............
UPS and generators help.

It was always lots of fun watching people go from board to board, room to room, trying to cadge some markers which still worked. Even more fun when they found out they were permanent and not erasable......
ORAC is online now  
Old 2nd Dec 2017, 18:21
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
If you do this stuff for a while from basics and MDR, it gets to the stage where you can do complex plans, off the cuff Trails, live re-routed Trails ( ), ETP, LPD, PNR, predicted available offload/time/range and achievable give etc.. pretty accurately while still flying your party tanker. . However, if you have always pressed buttons for your answers, you are completely fcuked when the button falls off.

OAP

Last edited by Onceapilot; 2nd Dec 2017 at 18:27. Reason: Clarity: added "completely".
Onceapilot is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2017, 05:01
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ORAC
On the other hand it lends itself to being able to allow those requesting AAR to do real time updates to requests; to do what if planning on the fly without another white board which can be circulated for inputs before being incorporated; to show locked in segments for those Ready airborne (so they don’t end up chasing 200nm across country for tankers that aren’t there; it allows almost immediate incorporation into the ATO and changes; electronic transfer to other media for exchange; and of course storage of the original plan and all messages and changes so that it is available for investigation if something goes wrong.

Apart from that, the whiteboard is better....
Priceless
heights good is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.