David Davis demanded RAF plane for Brexit talks.
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melmothtw
'They DON'T wish our country economic harm, they want the best economic deal for them'
So no politics in the negotiations then. No onward march towards a federal superstate. It's all purely about economics.
Let's ask the German car industry rather than the EU commissioners if they agree.
'They DON'T wish our country economic harm, they want the best economic deal for them'
So no politics in the negotiations then. No onward march towards a federal superstate. It's all purely about economics.
Let's ask the German car industry rather than the EU commissioners if they agree.
You called for me by name, blimey, so only proper I respond. I won't address your points though, as I think from previous postings the general consensus is that this thread now dies a death.
Melmothtw, out (on this topic, at least).
Melmothtw, out (on this topic, at least).
PPRuNe DD thread
You were on form here Chris!
Exactly..
Another sent over the pavilion for six!
Agree 100%...
Think the great PPRuNe god of BEagle is past his sell-by date. And has been for some time.
I thought this comment of his was a cheap shot.. and based on what factual evidence?
There have been precious few facts to emerge from the negotiations.
I think both sides are taking the negotiations to the wire.. Hope we're not the first to blink..
Geoff
"...and Europeans are not our enemy."
Quite, that would be the EU and its apparatchiks.
Quite, that would be the EU and its apparatchiks.
To suggest that weary HMG ministers travelling on vital business of state should not be allowed to use military transport aircraft, where available, is outrageous. Reading the anti-British sentiments from several of the ex-RAF personnel on this thread begs the question of where their loyalties lay during their years in the service.
Quote from Avionker:
"Obviously people have different opinions on what is better for Britain, but that in no way, shape or form can be described as anti-British."
Opinions are one thing. Characterising the referendum result and this government's stated intention to implement it as some kind of madness, and talking down the country's prospects - in line with most of our mainstream media - are unnecessary and unpatriotic. By all means criticise the government's Brexit strategy, and its negotiation skills. But talking up the EU's position in general and Barnier's performance in particular, while suggesting Britain's position is unreasonable and untenable - not to mention gratuitous, personal insults at our chief negotiator - are something else.
"Obviously people have different opinions on what is better for Britain, but that in no way, shape or form can be described as anti-British."
Opinions are one thing. Characterising the referendum result and this government's stated intention to implement it as some kind of madness, and talking down the country's prospects - in line with most of our mainstream media - are unnecessary and unpatriotic. By all means criticise the government's Brexit strategy, and its negotiation skills. But talking up the EU's position in general and Barnier's performance in particular, while suggesting Britain's position is unreasonable and untenable - not to mention gratuitous, personal insults at our chief negotiator - are something else.
Think the great PPRuNe god of BEagle is past his sell-by date. And has been for some time.
I thought this comment of his was a cheap shot.. and based on what factual evidence?
There have been precious few facts to emerge from the negotiations.
I think both sides are taking the negotiations to the wire.. Hope we're not the first to blink..
Geoff
You were on form here Chris!
Exactly..
Another sent over the pavilion for six!
Agree 100%...
Think the great PPRuNe god of BEagle is past his sell-by date. And has been for some time.
I thought this comment of his was a cheap shot.. and based on what factual evidence?
There have been precious few facts to emerge from the negotiations.
I think both sides are taking the negotiations to the wire.. Hope we're not the first to blink..
Geoff
Exactly..
Another sent over the pavilion for six!
Agree 100%...
Think the great PPRuNe god of BEagle is past his sell-by date. And has been for some time.
I thought this comment of his was a cheap shot.. and based on what factual evidence?
There have been precious few facts to emerge from the negotiations.
I think both sides are taking the negotiations to the wire.. Hope we're not the first to blink..
Geoff
I once had a car powered by all of 36bhp from its sidevalve engine, if powered be the word. Like many of the little Englanders intent on seeing our country dragged back to their misty-eyed world of the '50s, it too was a relic of a bygone age.
BBC politics makes interesting reading today; so whether he uses one of the RAF's corgi-carriers, the Eurostar or civil airlines, Davis is probably going to need to do a lot of travelling between now and Dec 14th...
Having been away for 3 days in Germany last week, I asked myself whether the ease with which my arrival at Munich and onward connection, as well as my return trip to Birmingham, will be the same in 2019 - unless, of course, the UK abandons its lemming like rush to the cliff....
BBC politics makes interesting reading today; so whether he uses one of the RAF's corgi-carriers, the Eurostar or civil airlines, Davis is probably going to need to do a lot of travelling between now and Dec 14th...
Having been away for 3 days in Germany last week, I asked myself whether the ease with which my arrival at Munich and onward connection, as well as my return trip to Birmingham, will be the same in 2019 - unless, of course, the UK abandons its lemming like rush to the cliff....
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At least lemmings do not need an unelected body in a foreign land determining their right, place, time and day of the year that they can throw themselves off the said cliff.
..
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 25th Nov 2017 at 10:53.
sidevalve: "You were on form here Chris!"
Thanks Geoff, had assumed I'd be playing this one solo...
Quotes from BEagle:
"I once had a car powered by all of 36bhp from its sidevalve engine, if powered be the word. Like many of the little Englanders intent on seeing our country dragged back to their misty-eyed world of the '50s, it too was a relic of a bygone age."
Reckon that can be described as another cheap shot, lacking factual evidence: playing the man, not the argument? If so, versus a tricky target, as it happens: an English Europhile living in France and married to a Frenchwoman, yet opposing an EU project progressively emasculating Europe's nation states for the self-glorification and financial security of its functionaries.
"BBC politics makes interesting reading today..."
Ah yes, the Brussels broadcasting service. And, admittedly, it can be tediously time-consuming to find commentators in our mainstream media that defy the convention of painting Blighty as a foolhardy supplicant up before the beak.
"I asked myself whether the ease with which [sic] my arrival at Munich and onward connection, as well as my return trip to Birmingham, will be the same in 2019..."
So the reassertion of our independence should be abandoned simply to ensure no temporary inconvenience to BEagle's commute?
"... unless, of course, the UK abandons its lemming like rush to the cliff.."
Now where have we seen that kind of threat before?
It's the sovereignty, stupid...
Thanks Geoff, had assumed I'd be playing this one solo...
Quotes from BEagle:
"I once had a car powered by all of 36bhp from its sidevalve engine, if powered be the word. Like many of the little Englanders intent on seeing our country dragged back to their misty-eyed world of the '50s, it too was a relic of a bygone age."
Reckon that can be described as another cheap shot, lacking factual evidence: playing the man, not the argument? If so, versus a tricky target, as it happens: an English Europhile living in France and married to a Frenchwoman, yet opposing an EU project progressively emasculating Europe's nation states for the self-glorification and financial security of its functionaries.
"BBC politics makes interesting reading today..."
Ah yes, the Brussels broadcasting service. And, admittedly, it can be tediously time-consuming to find commentators in our mainstream media that defy the convention of painting Blighty as a foolhardy supplicant up before the beak.
"I asked myself whether the ease with which [sic] my arrival at Munich and onward connection, as well as my return trip to Birmingham, will be the same in 2019..."
So the reassertion of our independence should be abandoned simply to ensure no temporary inconvenience to BEagle's commute?
"... unless, of course, the UK abandons its lemming like rush to the cliff.."
Now where have we seen that kind of threat before?
It's the sovereignty, stupid...
And, admittedly, it can be tediously time-consuming to find commentators in our mainstream media that defy the convention of painting Blighty as a foolhardy supplicant up before the beak.
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BEagle, I walked into a Colt reunion 2 days after the Referendum, First Guy I bumped into say "Alber, great to see you, a Sane man in this place."
I think in the most part you will find the same attitude here as I found that day.
Give David Davids an RAF aircraft to do his business.. Before some mad Dutchman buries it.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/erwina...7661372851070/
Last edited by Alber Ratman; 25th Nov 2017 at 16:59.
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Northern Ireland is the fly in the ointment.
Ireland will block any trade deal between the EU and the UK unless open borders remain between it and Northern Ireland. The DUP, whose Parliamentary support underpins the Government's majority, refuses to agree to any form of border between it and the rest of the UK.
Ireland will block any trade deal between the EU and the UK unless open borders remain between it and Northern Ireland. The DUP, whose Parliamentary support underpins the Government's majority, refuses to agree to any form of border between it and the rest of the UK.
Quote from Mil-26Man:
"Have you not read the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun, or the Daily Express lately? These are all main-stream media."
Yes, their leader-writers are pro-Brexit in one form or another, as are most - but certainly not all - of the articles they publish. That leaves The Times, Financial Times, The Guardian, Daily Mirror and Mail on Sunday, all of which are anti, and quietly backing a second referendum. (Some of us have voted twice already, and learned from our mistake first time around.)
But the point I was making is that the vast majority of writers and speakers in/on the various types of MSM, including those claiming to be pro-Brexit, cast the UK in the role of the supplicant when reporting developments.
For example, and here I beg the forbearance of the Moderators: our negotiators, one infers, merely have aspirations; the EU can and will set and enforce the ground rules, cajole and threaten. In practice the EU makes no concessions; we propose concessions which are pocketed and promptly deemed inadequate. Nearly all UK commentators in the MSM accept this tilted playing field. They contemplate yet further concessions, instead of standing our ground on the basis that a deal is preferable but not essential.
The PM - an instinctive Remainer and facing a majority of similarly-minded, Tory MPs - continues dancing to the EU's tune. David Davis, a former Leave campaigner, is more inscrutable. The cabinet's bumbling, but most eloquent Brexiteer, who happens also to represent the UK in foreign affairs, is banned from rallying people to the cause. Labour MPs, and especially their leader, prioritise power over conviction and country, so the fragile PM shrinks from forcing them or her Remainers to put up or shut up.
The reason we must contemplate walking away is that, although a deal acceptable to us need not be detrimental to individual EU countries, its very completion may unravel the sacred, but failing, EU project. Independence can be catching.
"Have you not read the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun, or the Daily Express lately? These are all main-stream media."
Yes, their leader-writers are pro-Brexit in one form or another, as are most - but certainly not all - of the articles they publish. That leaves The Times, Financial Times, The Guardian, Daily Mirror and Mail on Sunday, all of which are anti, and quietly backing a second referendum. (Some of us have voted twice already, and learned from our mistake first time around.)
But the point I was making is that the vast majority of writers and speakers in/on the various types of MSM, including those claiming to be pro-Brexit, cast the UK in the role of the supplicant when reporting developments.
For example, and here I beg the forbearance of the Moderators: our negotiators, one infers, merely have aspirations; the EU can and will set and enforce the ground rules, cajole and threaten. In practice the EU makes no concessions; we propose concessions which are pocketed and promptly deemed inadequate. Nearly all UK commentators in the MSM accept this tilted playing field. They contemplate yet further concessions, instead of standing our ground on the basis that a deal is preferable but not essential.
The PM - an instinctive Remainer and facing a majority of similarly-minded, Tory MPs - continues dancing to the EU's tune. David Davis, a former Leave campaigner, is more inscrutable. The cabinet's bumbling, but most eloquent Brexiteer, who happens also to represent the UK in foreign affairs, is banned from rallying people to the cause. Labour MPs, and especially their leader, prioritise power over conviction and country, so the fragile PM shrinks from forcing them or her Remainers to put up or shut up.
The reason we must contemplate walking away is that, although a deal acceptable to us need not be detrimental to individual EU countries, its very completion may unravel the sacred, but failing, EU project. Independence can be catching.
That leaves The Times, Financial Times, The Guardian, Daily Mirror and Mail on Sunday, all of which are anti...
failing, EU project.
Independence can be catching.
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Northern Ireland is the fly in the ointment.
Ireland will block any trade deal between the EU and the UK unless open borders remain between it and Northern Ireland. The DUP, whose Parliamentary support underpins the Government's majority, refuses to agree to any form of border between it and the rest of the UK.
Ireland will block any trade deal between the EU and the UK unless open borders remain between it and Northern Ireland. The DUP, whose Parliamentary support underpins the Government's majority, refuses to agree to any form of border between it and the rest of the UK.
What a nasty intolerant thread this has become. Time was when the British believed in respecting one another's point of view. Now we have learned to insult each other, to undermine our Government's negotiators and instead heap praise on those that they are negotiating with, treating everything they say as carved in stone.
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy...
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy...
What a nasty intolerant thread this has become. Time was when the British believed in respecting one another's point of view. Now we have learned to insult each other, to undermine our Government's negotiators and instead heap praise on those that they are negotiating with, treating everything they say as carved in stone.
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy...
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy...
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Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
'Relax' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'.
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
'Relax' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'.
Mil-26Man:-
Well thank you, that's much more like it. If we can keep it all nice and polite like that things can only get better. I must protest though at your accusation that I call remainers treasonous. I call some of them here intolerant. Maybe that isn't seen as much as a criticism these days, but that is rather my point. I'm old you see.
You take the moral high ground by first saying how nasty we all are for not respecting each other's opinions. You then go on to call remainers treasonous for not backing the government, and close with a flourish by calling us mad. Nicely done.
