Doubts about USA Nuke release process.
Thread Starter
Doubts about USA Nuke release process.
Can you believe these comments reported by the BBC on the subject of POTUS Nuclear release process? 
Quote BBC:
One of the experts, C Robert Kehler, who was commander of the US Strategic Command from 2011-13, said that in his former role he would have followed the president's order to carry out the strike - if it were legal.
He said if he were uncertain about its legality, he would have consulted with his own advisers.
Under certain circumstances, he explained: "I would have said, 'I'm not ready to proceed.'"
One senator, Ron Johnson, a Wisconsin Republican, asked: "Then what happens?"
Mr Kehler admitted: "I don't know."
People in the room laughed. But it was a nervous laugh.
OAP
Quote BBC:
One of the experts, C Robert Kehler, who was commander of the US Strategic Command from 2011-13, said that in his former role he would have followed the president's order to carry out the strike - if it were legal.
He said if he were uncertain about its legality, he would have consulted with his own advisers.
Under certain circumstances, he explained: "I would have said, 'I'm not ready to proceed.'"
One senator, Ron Johnson, a Wisconsin Republican, asked: "Then what happens?"
Mr Kehler admitted: "I don't know."
People in the room laughed. But it was a nervous laugh.
OAP
I thought the Sec of Def had to jointly authenticate.
Maybes that is what he is getting at, an unauthenticated order from Potus, he may have to go to the Sec of Def (&/or the Joint Chiefs) to confirm it.
Maybes that is what he is getting at, an unauthenticated order from Potus, he may have to go to the Sec of Def (&/or the Joint Chiefs) to confirm it.
According to wiki:
Only the President can direct the use of nuclear weapons by U.S. armed forces, including the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP). While the President does have unilateral authority as commander-in-chief to order that nuclear weapons be used for any reason at any time, the actual procedures and technical systems in place for authorizing the execution of a launch order requires a secondary confirmation under a two-man rule, as the President's order is subject to secondary confirmation by the Secretary of Defense. If the Secretary of Defense does not concur, then the President may in his sole discretion fire the Secretary. The Secretary of Defense has legal authority to approve the order, but cannot veto it[/I]
Only the President can direct the use of nuclear weapons by U.S. armed forces, including the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP). While the President does have unilateral authority as commander-in-chief to order that nuclear weapons be used for any reason at any time, the actual procedures and technical systems in place for authorizing the execution of a launch order requires a secondary confirmation under a two-man rule, as the President's order is subject to secondary confirmation by the Secretary of Defense. If the Secretary of Defense does not concur, then the President may in his sole discretion fire the Secretary. The Secretary of Defense has legal authority to approve the order, but cannot veto it[/I]
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This whole discussion in my opinion is silly to begin with. The President is the only person who can authorize a nuclear response, but does not actually have any fire button. He can't just unilaterally decide to drop one nuke on some random target. Targeting decisions are not made by the president. They're made by the military. And BTW, SIOP has been obsolete for several years. Nuclear targeting and release procedures are currently contained in CONPLAN 8044. The president must select from a menu of several nuclear strike options ("biscuits") contained in "the football" (The Presidential Emergency Satchel) which range from Major, Selected, to Limited. And even then, these are just release orders to the National Military Command Center. The senior officer in the NMCC prepares the actual launch order, which includes which weapons to release and when and includes the codes to unlock the weapons before they can even be prepared for firing. And that order must be validated by a second officer before it can be released. And those orders are subject to the two-man rule all the way down the chain of command right down to the weapon itself.
Thread Starter
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
OAP, possibly, however it could also be read to say nuclear response to WMD or massive conventional forces where defensive friendlies are at risk of being annihilated.
Back in the 60s SAC had a warning lamp in the CP for NUDET anywhere in the continental US. Reaction would certainly have been second strike which of course is not to say they would not have prempted.
Back in the 60s SAC had a warning lamp in the CP for NUDET anywhere in the continental US. Reaction would certainly have been second strike which of course is not to say they would not have prempted.
Thread Starter
Thanks PN. 
I realise that we are not going to be privy to the full details of the POTUS Nuke release proceedures. Interesting though, that some in the USA seem concerned just what their President might, or can, do.
Certainly, the reported testimony seems to show some serious unanswered questions. The "what happens then?"..."I don't know...." comments sound incredible.
OAP
I realise that we are not going to be privy to the full details of the POTUS Nuke release proceedures. Interesting though, that some in the USA seem concerned just what their President might, or can, do.
Certainly, the reported testimony seems to show some serious unanswered questions. The "what happens then?"..."I don't know...." comments sound incredible.
OAP
OAP, I think you need to review the concept of "civilian control of the military" before you make further comments.
That's not the topic of the thread. That's you trying to stir up crap.
So, no US First Use?
Thread Starter
You are so right. There is a whole load of CRAP here. Seems to me that if a recently retired top General in the US Nuclear weapon control system cannot explain to a Senate hearing how the release of US Nuclear weapons by Donald Trump is controlled, something is badly wrong. 
OAP
OAP
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Minuteman crewman Major Harold Hering asked about the validity of a launch order during training in 1973 and ended up needing the number to that truck driving school that Maverick and Goose saw on TV.
From Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Hering
From Wikipedia:
Twenty-one years into his Air Force career, while serving as a Minuteman missile crewman and expecting a promotion to lieutenant colonel, he posed the following question during training at Vandenberg Air Force Base in late 1973, at a time when Richard Nixon was president:
"How can I know that an order I receive to launch my missiles came from a sane president?"
The Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP) specifies that, when the National Command Authority (NCA) issues an order to use nuclear weapons, the order will filter down the chain of command. Per the SIOP, decision-making is the responsibility of the NCA, not of officers lower in the chain of command, who are responsible for executing NCA decisions. To ensure no opportunity for execution by a rogue operator, the two-man rule requires that at each stage, two operators independently verify and agree that the order is valid. In the case of the Minuteman missile, this is done by comparing the authorization code in the launch order against the code in the Sealed Authenticator, a special sealed envelope which holds the code; if both operators agree that the code matches, the launch must be executed.
Hering was pulled from training and, unable to receive a reply to his satisfaction, requested reassignment to different duties. Instead, the Air Force issued an administrative discharge for "failure to demonstrate acceptable qualities of leadership". Hering appealed the discharge, and at the Air Force Board of Inquiry, the Air Force stated that knowing whether or not a launch order is lawful is beyond the executing officer's need to know.
The Board of Inquiry ruled that Hering be discharged from the Air Force. After his discharge, Hering became at first a long-haul trucker, and then a counselor.
"How can I know that an order I receive to launch my missiles came from a sane president?"
The Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP) specifies that, when the National Command Authority (NCA) issues an order to use nuclear weapons, the order will filter down the chain of command. Per the SIOP, decision-making is the responsibility of the NCA, not of officers lower in the chain of command, who are responsible for executing NCA decisions. To ensure no opportunity for execution by a rogue operator, the two-man rule requires that at each stage, two operators independently verify and agree that the order is valid. In the case of the Minuteman missile, this is done by comparing the authorization code in the launch order against the code in the Sealed Authenticator, a special sealed envelope which holds the code; if both operators agree that the code matches, the launch must be executed.
Hering was pulled from training and, unable to receive a reply to his satisfaction, requested reassignment to different duties. Instead, the Air Force issued an administrative discharge for "failure to demonstrate acceptable qualities of leadership". Hering appealed the discharge, and at the Air Force Board of Inquiry, the Air Force stated that knowing whether or not a launch order is lawful is beyond the executing officer's need to know.
The Board of Inquiry ruled that Hering be discharged from the Air Force. After his discharge, Hering became at first a long-haul trucker, and then a counselor.
Thread Starter
Airbubba,
Yes, these sort of issues will occur. However, I am referring to confusion at the top of the chain.
BTW, I believe SIOP was superceeded and, I would expect that someone exerts the intellectual oversight on the top level proceedure?
OAP
Yes, these sort of issues will occur. However, I am referring to confusion at the top of the chain.
BTW, I believe SIOP was superceeded and, I would expect that someone exerts the intellectual oversight on the top level proceedure?
OAP
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"the Air Force stated that knowing whether or not a launch order is lawful is beyond the executing officer's need to know."
I guess that could be argued at a future War Crimes Trial......................
I guess that could be argued at a future War Crimes Trial......................
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To Kill the President
Possibly US lawmakers have read the book To Kill the President by Sam Bourne aka Jonathan Freedland.
It starts off with POTUS ordering a strike on China and North Korea, as he was upset about a statement from Pyongyang.
It starts off with POTUS ordering a strike on China and North Korea, as he was upset about a statement from Pyongyang.