Army won’t sack recruits who use cocaine because the are so short of troops...
A slightly less Daily Mail-esque discussion of this can be found on the 'Thin Pinstriped Line' blog.
For some weird PPRuNe reason, they won't allow links to it but if you Google the blog name and "Shooting Up in the Army?" you'll find it. There's a bit more context there.
For some weird PPRuNe reason, they won't allow links to it but if you Google the blog name and "Shooting Up in the Army?" you'll find it. There's a bit more context there.
There is no change to the policy that anyone outside of Part 1 training will be subjected to CDT and quickly dismissed if they fail the test. What has seemingly slightly changed is the ‘grey area’ of Part 1 training in the Army. It is perhaps inevitable that a Service that needs to recruit people of a young age, who are often highly impressionable and have friends who may not always be angels. To pretend that every recruit arrives at basic training pure and innocent is touching and naive.
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Worth 15 minutes of your time to invest in some education on the evidence based approach to drug addiction, very enlightening!
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...ong/discussion
Enjoy.
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...ong/discussion
Enjoy.
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They will be able to order it from Amazon lol.... Not what this couple was expecting
Police investigate after 65 pounds of weed included with Orlando couple?s Amazon order | WFTV
Police investigate after 65 pounds of weed included with Orlando couple?s Amazon order | WFTV
Worth 15 minutes of your time to invest in some education on the evidence based approach to drug addiction, very enlightening!
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...ong/discussion
Enjoy.
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...ong/discussion
Enjoy.
OTOH if one of that 50% is your kid then good.
I'm only convinced about the alcohol problem because vastly more people abuse alcohol.
Cocaine use is not uncommon in a highly educated sociable part of city society and heroin is getting there too, so these substances are not only used by the societally disconnected.
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He does say that, after 15 years, injecting is only down 50% in Portugal.
OTOH if one of that 50% is your kid then good.
I'm only convinced about the alcohol problem because vastly more people abuse alcohol.
Cocaine use is not uncommon in a highly educated sociable part of city society and heroin is getting there too, so these substances are not only used by the societally disconnected.
OTOH if one of that 50% is your kid then good.
I'm only convinced about the alcohol problem because vastly more people abuse alcohol.
Cocaine use is not uncommon in a highly educated sociable part of city society and heroin is getting there too, so these substances are not only used by the societally disconnected.
And of the 50%, the devil is in the detail which unfortunately I dont have. 50% of 100 is the same ratio as 50% of 500,000 but has vastly different implications on society, individuals and the entire state of a country. Having been involved with the ambulance service for 5 yrs I can attest that 50% less drug related ‘999’ calls would have a strategic and far ranging impact on the UK, 50% less alcoholic related would be an absolute game changer!
Drug abuse is rarely by those who have had a loving home, opportunity and a real physical and meaningful social network (vs Facebook). And whilst I am most definitely not advocating that the military recruits from this demographic, smoking cannabis as a teenager is a different proposition compared to a 5 yr heroin addict. I am happy to go on the record and state that I tried cannabis in my teens. I am also happy to state that I have never killed anyone, robbed my grandmother or tried to sell the family car. I am now a fully funtioning, mortgage paying, responsible parent who has, and is, serving their country.
Times change and we all need to be open to new ideas. Let go of emotional responses and look at peer reviewed research by experts in the field who are looking to the future and not stuck analysing history.
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Never tried nor ever wanted to try drugs, quite happy with a bottle of plonk or a few beers.
Alcohol always struck me as on the whole a social recreation taken in the company of others, where as drugs tend to be the opposite.
Alcohol always struck me as on the whole a social recreation taken in the company of others, where as drugs tend to be the opposite.
Alcohol always struck me as on the whole a social recreation taken in the company of others, where as drugs tend to be the opposite.
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Not many opium dens on the high street where I live, but lots of pubs hence the "on the whole"
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So long as we regard the whole point of drugs legislation (and hence the rules for service personnel) to be about managing risk, then they are not fit for purpose as they stand.
One extra thought: We employ contractors in many of the roles previously taken by Service personnel, yet they are not subject to the same testing and rules.
I have known quite a few recovering alcoholics during my time in the service, and after. There is little doubt that years ago there was a culture of drinking in all three services, where heavy drinking was not frowned upon, and even encouraged in some circumstances. One of the chaps I knew came off the bottle, but still eventually succumbed to throat cancer which was caused by his heavy drinking. Another friend has recently had one leg amputated (aged 65) He wont be playing cricket any more, which was his great pleasure in life,, but arteriosclerosis caused by years of heavy post match drinking eventually took its toll
I could go on, but the point is obvious. Yes Nutloose, I take your point about moderate social drinking - I'm a moderate social drinker myself, but our society encourages drinking. Look at any tv programme where two women are meeting for a chat - they will invariably be downing huge glasses of wine, probably more than a days worth of units in a glass. Look at FB with "hooray, its wine o'clock" etc posts. Its easy to come across as a miserable killjoy if you dont go along with the prevailing "ho ho, wink wink" attitude to drinking, but really I don't care - I've seen far too many lives ruined by the stuff - far more than I have by other drugs.
I could go on, but the point is obvious. Yes Nutloose, I take your point about moderate social drinking - I'm a moderate social drinker myself, but our society encourages drinking. Look at any tv programme where two women are meeting for a chat - they will invariably be downing huge glasses of wine, probably more than a days worth of units in a glass. Look at FB with "hooray, its wine o'clock" etc posts. Its easy to come across as a miserable killjoy if you dont go along with the prevailing "ho ho, wink wink" attitude to drinking, but really I don't care - I've seen far too many lives ruined by the stuff - far more than I have by other drugs.
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OK, so I am old fashioned, comes with being old.
I have to point out that we are talking about recruits. If they can't do as they are told at the early stages, what chance is there for them later on?
This should not be about drugs, it's about doing as you are told.
I have to point out that we are talking about recruits. If they can't do as they are told at the early stages, what chance is there for them later on?
This should not be about drugs, it's about doing as you are told.
Your alcohol and your fags are drugs. They are just legal. In the future, a similar (far more reasonable) position may be held with drugs currently illegal. In the past in some places alcohol was illegal or at least more controlled with regard supply.
These days it is increasingly unusual to meet people who have not tried to some degree drugs which are still illegal.
These days it is increasingly unusual to meet people who have not tried to some degree drugs which are still illegal.
I recall some 15 years ago walking along the sea front on an evening in Spain chatting to Mrs W and 16 year old W Minor. "need to tell you a couple of things", piped up WM. "Tried fags, did not like them, tried weed, did not like it". Mrs W was about to ask him if he had tried anything else that attracts 16 year old boys, but I gave her a look and she left it there.
However, we did thank him for his honesty and openness. Well, he did go to ciggies but has long since given them up, and he does not do drugs. Girls and alcohol, well you know 29 year olds
However, we did thank him for his honesty and openness. Well, he did go to ciggies but has long since given them up, and he does not do drugs. Girls and alcohol, well you know 29 year olds
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Remember the 'random' drugs tests that were first introduced to the RAF?
We had alpha, bravo and charlie (there's an oversight!) candidates, a certain proportion from each category were needed before the test was deemed finished and you could leave base.
I was at RAF Kinloss at the time, we had to show our ID's as we left the base and if your name was on the list , you had to go to the Med Centre and take the test.
As a relatively old guy, I was amazed to find that i was required to do the test in the first 3 out of 4 testing sessions.
I looked around the waiting room and saw lots of old, married guys waiting to be tested. I was nervous in case Ralgex or Bournvita was on the banned list.
It was then that I realised that, in order to meet the targets, no young, single, party going types were to be tested, it wasn't that the RAF had me down as a Columbian Drug Lord.
It was around the time Fort George provided a lot of positive drugs results, that the 'zero tolerance' approach was changed to a first offence warning!
We had alpha, bravo and charlie (there's an oversight!) candidates, a certain proportion from each category were needed before the test was deemed finished and you could leave base.
I was at RAF Kinloss at the time, we had to show our ID's as we left the base and if your name was on the list , you had to go to the Med Centre and take the test.
As a relatively old guy, I was amazed to find that i was required to do the test in the first 3 out of 4 testing sessions.
I looked around the waiting room and saw lots of old, married guys waiting to be tested. I was nervous in case Ralgex or Bournvita was on the banned list.
It was then that I realised that, in order to meet the targets, no young, single, party going types were to be tested, it wasn't that the RAF had me down as a Columbian Drug Lord.
It was around the time Fort George provided a lot of positive drugs results, that the 'zero tolerance' approach was changed to a first offence warning!
I say that at the same time as admitting I still have no time for dealers and would cheerfully blunt my kukri on their ribcage, but this doesn't seem to work long term. There's an ex-Met drugs officer (I think) - Neil Woods IIRC who has come out to suggest that fighting dealers is like Darwinism: the Police go after the soft targets and leave the hardened ones to go free. So if fighting them doesn't work, and if as the academics on a University Short Course pointed out 'it's like squeezing a balloon; cut of supply routes in one area and they simply grow elsewhere', legalise them and disrupt the business model by taking control of the problem.
That aside, I'm not sure I think drugs and weaponry are compatible. But, in this day and age is it realistic to believe we're all Choir Boys turning up for training. Of course not. I suspect many of the characteristics attracting people to the military are also found in those of a more delinquent persuasion (by that I mean seeking excitement, adventure, something out of the ordinary from normal social conventions). I would perhaps be inclined to accept this and feature it in the application process: ask a direct question, backed up with CDT as part of the medical. You're honest and clean, fine. You lie and get found out, you're out. You're honest, and turn up positive but are remorseful we take you on probation with the proviso of your name appears on the CDT list for X years after. Might be a pragmatic way of dealing with youthful indiscretion that could have arisen through myriad societal factors other than simply being a bad egg?
Last edited by Melchett01; 24th Oct 2017 at 21:21.
That aside, I'm not sure I think drugs and weaponry are compatible. But, in this day and age is it realistic to believe we're all Choir Boys turning up for training. Of course not. I suspect many of the characteristics attracting people to the military are also found in those of a more delinquent persuasion (by that I mean seeking excitement, adventure, something out of the ordinary from normal social conventions).
Girls and alcohol
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I am also happy to state that I have never killed anyone, robbed my grandmother or tried to sell the family car. I am now a fully funtioning, mortgage paying, responsible parent who has, and is, serving their country.
There is no change to the policy that anyone outside of Part 1 training will be subjected to CDT and quickly dismissed if they fail the test.
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I find it all rather ironic, you lower the standards due to being unable to fill the recruitment figures and thus maintain the service establishment, after having made significant numbers of that establishment redundant over the last few years.