Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

UK MFTS on or off the rails?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

UK MFTS on or off the rails?

Old 15th Feb 2018, 19:48
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The South
Age: 54
Posts: 426
Touchdown autos in the H135 are prohibited for training.
FloaterNorthWest is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2018, 21:30
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,646
I don't think MFTS RW students will ever see an EOL/touchdown auto except in the FTD - another erosion of a key helicopter skill.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 03:23
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Asia Pacific
Age: 48
Posts: 1,761
When you say 'the best of Cobham' I hope it's true. There were some outstanding Cobham instructors during the old DHFS contract, but there was more than a sprinkling of idle belters churning out NI 1980's stuff regardless of what the syllabi called for, and generally waiting for Godot.


If you have managed to keep the wheat and jettison the chaff, I'd be marginally supportive (despite the wrong choice of aircraft for 50% of your throughput).


Hopefully the decision on the ex-Cobham guys wasn't made on how they looked on paper......


Cobham boss: Helicopter unit workers' fake degrees had no impact on safety | City A.M.
minigundiplomat is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 10:06
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,937
MGD

There seem to be quite a few looking at either re-joining or FTRS contracts. So it might be ‘chaff from the wheat’

LJ
Lima Juliet is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 17:36
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,646
That will be because the military is struggling to fill its agreed share of the QHIs for MFTS and will probably suffer contractual penalties if it doesn't.

The aspiration for a high percentage of mil instructors was a great idea but didn't match what is actually available.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 18:14
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 2,131
Originally Posted by minigundiplomat View Post
When you say 'the best of Cobham' I hope it's true. There were some outstanding Cobham instructors during the old DHFS contract, but there was more than a sprinkling of idle belters churning out NI 1980's stuff regardless of what the syllabi called for, and generally waiting for Godot.


If you have managed to keep the wheat and jettison the chaff, I'd be marginally supportive (despite the wrong choice of aircraft for 50% of your throughput).


Hopefully the decision on the ex-Cobham guys wasn't made on how they looked on paper......


Cobham boss: Helicopter unit workers' fake degrees had no impact on safety | City A.M.
Hmmm I do not understand the urgent need there to add three letters to one's title in a jiffy ? It is not like the US system where theres a prerequisite (apart from good stick and cyclic / hours in the air )to have Associate and Bachelors degree in tens of dozens of aerospace related degrees nowadays to get to the interview.

The article stated were the pilots were based in Curacao hence flying AW139 for the Coast Guard ; so figured they were informed their CVs pulled up (I had to do that for every employee as part of my internal audit in old helicopter company I worked for, i.a.w EASA changes) and they were non Brits / trained in USA etc etc which had to have a degree??

If for some reason management says "ok peeps, under x,y,z may need a degree, lests send you both or do a distance learning course with one of the many aviation colleges stateside and earm it within 5-6 years"

cheers
chopper2004 is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2018, 01:01
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Age: 50
Posts: 476
Two video blogs from the ex Requirement Manager of UK MFTS on you tube puts some more pieces in the jigsaw:


iRaven is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2018, 12:35
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by chopper2004 View Post
Hmmm I do not understand the urgent need there to add three letters to one's title in a jiffy ? It is not like the US system where theres a prerequisite (apart from good stick and cyclic / hours in the air )to have Associate and Bachelors degree in tens of dozens of aerospace related degrees nowadays to get to the interview.

The article stated where the pilots were based in Curacao hence flying AW139 for the Coast Guard ; so figured they were informed their CVs pulled up (I had to do that for every employee as part of my internal audit in old helicopter company I worked for, i.a.w EASA changes) and they were non Brits / trained in USA etc etc which had to have a degree??

If for some reason management says "ok peeps, under x,y,z may need a degree, lests send you both or do a distance learning course with one of the many aviation colleges stateside and earm it within 5-6 years"

cheers
They where Brits and they hold EASA licences. Pilots and engineers!
Medevac999 is online now  
Old 19th Feb 2018, 17:51
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: front seat, facing forwards
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by iRaven View Post
Two video blogs from the ex Requirement Manager of UK MFTS on you tube puts some more pieces in the jigsaw:
Really? Wonder why he's "ex"?
just another jocky is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2018, 20:32
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 492
Wow, that T6 sure is ugly!
H Peacock is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2018, 01:36
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted by just another jocky View Post
Really? Wonder why he's "ex"?
He retired from flying. Was also the boss of 4 Sqn

http://www.fastjetperformance.com/po...e-bovril-snail
Davef68 is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2018, 01:49
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted by iRaven View Post

Two interesting points (albeit two years old) - the need for more aircraft and (at 8.48) he says after 5 years the RAF owns the T6s, rather than Ascent/Affinity.
Davef68 is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2018, 06:16
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: front seat, facing forwards
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by Davef68 View Post
Not why he's an ex-flyer but why he's an ex-requirements manager.
just another jocky is offline  
Old 20th Feb 2018, 07:24
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Davef68 View Post
Two interesting points (albeit two years old) - the need for more aircraft and (at 8.48) he says after 5 years the RAF owns the T6s, rather than Ascent/Affinity.
Not hard to work out - even with 8 FL sqns (5x Typhoon, 3x F35) you conservatively want to have 4 ab initio Guys hitting streets of the sqn each year. 32 Pilots x 100 hours = 3200 hours. Divide that through 10 airframes and the number of available flying days a year and you can see you start running into issues. This is before you have any wastage (scrubbed due weather, performance, U/S) or include any non student flying (flypast, display, Pax ride or staff training).

However now that Typhoon is moving to more squadrons, even with heavy utilisation of simulation I can see why there isn’t enough T-6.
flighthappens is online now  
Old 20th Feb 2018, 18:27
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: front seat, facing forwards
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by flighthappens View Post
Not hard to work out - even with 8 FL sqns (5x Typhoon, 3x F35) you conservatively want to have 4 ab initio Guys hitting streets of the sqn each year. 32 Pilots x 100 hours = 3200 hours. Divide that through 10 airframes and the number of available flying days a year and you can see you start running into issues. This is before you have any wastage (scrubbed due weather, performance, U/S) or include any non student flying (flypast, display, Pax ride or staff training).

However now that Typhoon is moving to more squadrons, even with heavy utilisation of simulation I can see why there isn’t enough T-6.
Don't forget international students !
just another jocky is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 10:30
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: neither here nor there
Posts: 133
Strange how the website has the same vacancies over and over...no recruitment problems I'm sure
Lionel Lion is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 10:51
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: England
Posts: 224
Strange how the website has the same vacancies over and over...no recruitment problems I'm sure
Pay peanuts - Get chimps

Spot 4 is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 11:00
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,255
Originally Posted by Lionel Lion View Post
Strange how the website has the same vacancies over and over...no recruitment problems I'm sure
Its not just that they are short sighted on the recruitment process and how they treat the staff they recruit but a breathtaking lack of understanding of the civilian world and whats going on out there. There is no magic pot of qualified Instructors queuing up at work for Ascent because the people with those skills are already in high demand across the industry. Take multi engine IR Instructors, there is a Europe wide shortage of them. Every school I know is unable to recruit because the normal feed of suitably quailified guys is not happening as the airlines swallow them up. The pool of people they expected to recruit from out of the Airforce are not taking up the offers being made as the T&Cs suck and they have a lot to learn about looking after staff.

Instructors are simple folk, they expect to be trained where required for the job and do the job that was advertised not have a snippets of the contract thrown at them that says "and any other task the company may ask of you" or have deal with attempts to have the contracts amended post signing and many months into them in order to benefit the company..........

They are going to struggle to fill the vacancies as the pool is small and incestuous and everybody talks......
S-Works is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 15:46
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: deepest here
Posts: 42
Bose-x,

I agree with much of what you say, but I think the issue will not be recruitment, but rather retention. People need jobs to pay the Bills, and most will take what is on offer from Ascent as a quick and easy fix. However, it is clear from speaking to colleagues who already work for Ascent that their pay and t's and c's, leave policy etc are poor. Of course TUPE will protect the transferees, but given the planned syllabi, working hrs etc, people will quickly look elsewhere I suspect.

I have to wonder what will happen to those rearcrew protected by TUPE who find out they don't fit in the Juno?

If the mil hit their quota it might not matter too much, but the experience within DHFS is mostly civilian and these are the people that the system can least afford to lose (and Ascent are planning to make some of them redundant - but of course this reduces the wage bill .
ethereal entity is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 17:55
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,255
I agree on the retention. They are all ready losing people. But replacement I think is definitely going to be an issue for them, certainly on the ME training side as there is just not the supply of people out there. Its going to be interesting to see where the current outsource request is going to go. I am watching with interest the responses and questions being asked by potential ATO's.
S-Works is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.