UK MFTS on or off the rails?
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,852
Yes, Patrob1237, due to a serious family illness most of my second year was a write-off. But with the support of my UAS boss, I was allowed to repeat that year. I received that news only a month after the family member, my mother, passed away.
Perhaps in future, before you make such comments, you might like to consider your questions with more thought?
Perhaps in future, before you make such comments, you might like to consider your questions with more thought?
Last edited by BEagle; 21st Dec 2020 at 21:55.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East of Penge
Age: 71
Posts: 1,525
Beags
By accident I thought that the situation we found ourselves in could actually have been the basis of a good scheme, if thoughtfully implemented..
Succesful candidates through OASC go to Cranwell post "A" levels for a year's Initial Officer Training before commissioning and with a little bit of elementary specialisation ( e,g, some EFT as appropriate)
This would wash out some candidates before University cost to the Service, as well as deterring some who basically were looking for a well funded degree,,
On return from University, specialisation training could begin almost immediately, without having to then incur the basic IOT time, costs and losses of those who had already been paid well to study and then (sometimes intentionally) failed..
We , of course, went through IOT twice as a consequence of bridging schemes.
. " Put it down to experience!" as we were told..
Yeah,sure.,
By accident I thought that the situation we found ourselves in could actually have been the basis of a good scheme, if thoughtfully implemented..
Succesful candidates through OASC go to Cranwell post "A" levels for a year's Initial Officer Training before commissioning and with a little bit of elementary specialisation ( e,g, some EFT as appropriate)
This would wash out some candidates before University cost to the Service, as well as deterring some who basically were looking for a well funded degree,,
On return from University, specialisation training could begin almost immediately, without having to then incur the basic IOT time, costs and losses of those who had already been paid well to study and then (sometimes intentionally) failed..
We , of course, went through IOT twice as a consequence of bridging schemes.
. " Put it down to experience!" as we were told..
Yeah,sure.,
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Oswestry
Posts: 11
On 18 Aug 09 Beagle posted: "I was fortunate enough to have 4 super years in ULAS flying the Chippie at the beginning of the 1970s!
It should have been only 3, but the lure of flying was so strong that I had to repeat my 2nd year at QMC!"
No mention of a serious family illness, hence my post.
It should have been only 3, but the lure of flying was so strong that I had to repeat my 2nd year at QMC!"
No mention of a serious family illness, hence my post.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,852
Patrob1237 , interesting that you've been trolling me for over 11 years.....
Flying was the only respite from the problems I suffered at the time.
Might I suggest that you cease and desist from such unsavoury posts.
Flying was the only respite from the problems I suffered at the time.
Might I suggest that you cease and desist from such unsavoury posts.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,910
Patrob
BEagle I know you are more than capable of fighting your own battles but I have to jump in.
Patrob you are going to a hell of a lot of effort to piss off someone you probably don’t even know. That says an awful lot about the kind of person you are.
Maybe take a moment and think about whether you need to continue with your current line of posting.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Internet!
BV
Patrob you are going to a hell of a lot of effort to piss off someone you probably don’t even know. That says an awful lot about the kind of person you are.
Maybe take a moment and think about whether you need to continue with your current line of posting.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Internet!
BV
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,852
Thanks, BV!
Haraka - the only problem with the '99 pre-university' scheme you and I went through was that it needed all those excellent education officers at Whittle and Trenchard to support the academics. The Junior Entry year was indeed demanding and we lost a few (one chap didn't even stay for the first night) along the way who couldn't hack a whole year of that Flt Cdt training. But at least we had a real band to accompany Johnny G's drill instructions and the sight and sound of all those Jet Provosts to keep us motivated. Would today's snowflakes tolerate 'minor, majors, 'strikers'' etc.? Knocker and Ferris weren't holidays and King Rock most certainly wasn't! As for flying, I sandbagged a couple of hours in a Chipmunk, but did some Sunday gliding and that was it. At the end of the year we were all very fit and disciplined - it used to amuse the ULAS QFIs to see the ex-Flt Cdts marching in step over to morning briefing from the accommodation block opposite at White Waltham when we made it to University!
Personally I thought that our Flt and Sqn Cdrs in Flt Cdt days were of much higher quality than some of the people we had in GE days - but then the Senior Entry probably did much of the Flt Cdt Cdrs work for them, I suppose.
However, I agree that the Junior Entry year at the age of 17 -18 was a darn good intro!
Haraka - the only problem with the '99 pre-university' scheme you and I went through was that it needed all those excellent education officers at Whittle and Trenchard to support the academics. The Junior Entry year was indeed demanding and we lost a few (one chap didn't even stay for the first night) along the way who couldn't hack a whole year of that Flt Cdt training. But at least we had a real band to accompany Johnny G's drill instructions and the sight and sound of all those Jet Provosts to keep us motivated. Would today's snowflakes tolerate 'minor, majors, 'strikers'' etc.? Knocker and Ferris weren't holidays and King Rock most certainly wasn't! As for flying, I sandbagged a couple of hours in a Chipmunk, but did some Sunday gliding and that was it. At the end of the year we were all very fit and disciplined - it used to amuse the ULAS QFIs to see the ex-Flt Cdts marching in step over to morning briefing from the accommodation block opposite at White Waltham when we made it to University!
Personally I thought that our Flt and Sqn Cdrs in Flt Cdt days were of much higher quality than some of the people we had in GE days - but then the Senior Entry probably did much of the Flt Cdt Cdrs work for them, I suppose.
However, I agree that the Junior Entry year at the age of 17 -18 was a darn good intro!
Last edited by BEagle; 22nd Dec 2020 at 14:21.
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by BEagle
Thanks, BV!
Haraka - the only problem with the '99 pre-university' scheme you and I went through was that it needed all those excellent education officers at Whittle and Trenchard to support the academics. The Junior Entry year was indeed demanding and we lost a few (one chap didn't even stay for the first night) along the way who couldn't hack a whole year of that Flt Cdt training. But at least we had a real band to accompany Johnny G's drill instructions and the sight and sound of all those Jet Provosts to keep us motivated. Would today's snowflakes tolerate 'minor, majors, 'strikers'' etc.? Knocker and Ferris weren't holidays and King Rock most certainly wasn't! As for flying, I sandbagged a couple of hours in a Chipmunk, but did some Sunday gliding and that was it. At the end of the year we were all very fit and disciplined - it used to amuse the ULAS QFIs to see the ex-Flt Cdts marching in step over to morning briefing from the accommodation block opposite at White Waltham when we made it to University!
Personally I thought that our Flt and Sqn Cdrs in Flt Cdt days were of much higher quality than some of the people we had in GE days - but then the Senior Entry probably did much of the Flt Cdt Cdrs work for them, I suppose.
However, I agree that the Junior Entry year at the age of 17 -18 was a darn good intro!
Haraka - the only problem with the '99 pre-university' scheme you and I went through was that it needed all those excellent education officers at Whittle and Trenchard to support the academics. The Junior Entry year was indeed demanding and we lost a few (one chap didn't even stay for the first night) along the way who couldn't hack a whole year of that Flt Cdt training. But at least we had a real band to accompany Johnny G's drill instructions and the sight and sound of all those Jet Provosts to keep us motivated. Would today's snowflakes tolerate 'minor, majors, 'strikers'' etc.? Knocker and Ferris weren't holidays and King Rock most certainly wasn't! As for flying, I sandbagged a couple of hours in a Chipmunk, but did some Sunday gliding and that was it. At the end of the year we were all very fit and disciplined - it used to amuse the ULAS QFIs to see the ex-Flt Cdts marching in step over to morning briefing from the accommodation block opposite at White Waltham when we made it to University!
Personally I thought that our Flt and Sqn Cdrs in Flt Cdt days were of much higher quality than some of the people we had in GE days - but then the Senior Entry probably did much of the Flt Cdt Cdrs work for them, I suppose.
However, I agree that the Junior Entry year at the age of 17 -18 was a darn good intro!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,910
Originally Posted by The...Bird
"Would today's snowflakes tolerate 'minor, majors, 'strikers'' etc.?" - Not a chance.
Don’t you just love unsubstantiated and, frankly, prejudicial statements?!
BV
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 2,962
Originally Posted by Bob Viking
Would yesterday’s dinosaurs cope with today’s modern technology? Not a chance.
Don’t you just love unsubstantiated and, frankly, prejudicial statements?!
BV
Don’t you just love unsubstantiated and, frankly, prejudicial statements?!
BV
A naval architect: ‘Anyone who is not current in their chosen specialism should be sacked’.
A cracker, and the tutor went round everyone. An RN Commander whom I knew of old said ‘I’m a Sea King pilot, but I no longer fly. That doesn’t make me useless to the Merlin project team’. And so on.
Last up, a Brigadier, Director of Special Projects (and far more impressively, a former CO of the Black Watch RHR). ‘I’m just a grunt infantryman, trained to kill. And I’m current’.
Brilliant.
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Ibstock
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by BEagle
Patrob1237 , interesting that you've been trolling me for over 11 years.....
Flying was the only respite from the problems I suffered at the time.
Might I suggest that you cease and desist from such unsavoury posts.
Flying was the only respite from the problems I suffered at the time.
Might I suggest that you cease and desist from such unsavoury posts.
Are you sure you’ve got the right guy?
Like I say, nothing to do with me, but it cannot be him/ her/ £&@&?? that’s trolling you.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oxford
Age: 82
Posts: 363
Surely we must all accept that times have changed, both in the Royal Air Force and outside! Possibly this is because there has been a major change in the way that life is now lived and the way that things are viewed overall ! I would have no wish to rejoin an Air Force that still insisted on blanket bed-packs every morning (for instance!), however, I would still love to rejoin an Air Force that has the capabilities of our current one and (personally) would not really miss the "bull-s--t" that we had some 60 years ago ( and more recently!).
Most of us on this forum were, or are, in what I feel is still the greatest Air Force going and one which I, rightly or wrongly, feel is being demeaned by petty disagreements or politics. It is still the Royal Air Force, and we should be proud to serve, or have served in it !
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Bill
Most of us on this forum were, or are, in what I feel is still the greatest Air Force going and one which I, rightly or wrongly, feel is being demeaned by petty disagreements or politics. It is still the Royal Air Force, and we should be proud to serve, or have served in it !
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Bill
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Norwich
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by jayteeto
A lot of stuff is already done at UAS. Believe me when I say, degree comes first and achieving that “tick” is optional. Beagle, I’m an old man now, cynical too, but with a bit of work from us, I think this is a good idea that will enhance the UAS experience. The flying clubs have gone, many students do their 3 years and have zero interest in getting airborne. They’re great kids with a great future in the RAF, but they don’t think like we did at that age.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,852
Would yesterday’s dinosaurs cope with today’s modern technology? Not a chance.
Don’t you just love unsubstantiated and, frankly, prejudicial statements?!
Don’t you just love unsubstantiated and, frankly, prejudicial statements?!
Having spent some time on developing what was once known as HMI for a current military system, I know that 'modern technology' needs to be intuitive but not all-dominating. Whether 'dinosaurs' can cope really depends upon whether they can be bothered to learn - a Victor-era boss with whom I once flew couldn't even manage the standard TACAN-based SID after a go-around without the navigator talking him through it!
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 83
Posts: 2,277
Originally Posted by Bill Macgillivray
Beagle,
However, there are many others who can and some can even use a FMS!!
However, there are many others who can and some can even use a FMS!!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The sky mainly
Posts: 309
So, anyway, to steer this back in the right direction, does anyone know what the backlog of pilots waiting for courses is like? I have heard that the number on hold has fallen quite a bit, but there is still a way to go.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 530
Originally Posted by Bill Macgillivray
Beagle,
However, there are many others who can and some can even use a FMS!!
However, there are many others who can and some can even use a FMS!!
Last edited by H Peacock; 31st Dec 2020 at 12:22.
