Janes report on AAC
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Janes report on AAC
UK army aviation hit by new round of cuts | Jane's 360
Janes are reporting on the Aviation section of Army 2020(R), with some purported large scale cuts.
Headlines of retirement of Gazelle brought forwards to 2018, 5AAC disbanding, and 669 \ 672 no longer taking up the Wildcat as planned. Manning is reported to reduce from 1700 to ~ 1300 of AAC, with REME losing ~200.
If true, disturbing times ahead for the corps. FW ISR -> RAF has been on the cards for a while, but with drawdown from Lynx, this will leave a fairly small cadre of Army Aviation.
Janes are reporting on the Aviation section of Army 2020(R), with some purported large scale cuts.
Headlines of retirement of Gazelle brought forwards to 2018, 5AAC disbanding, and 669 \ 672 no longer taking up the Wildcat as planned. Manning is reported to reduce from 1700 to ~ 1300 of AAC, with REME losing ~200.
If true, disturbing times ahead for the corps. FW ISR -> RAF has been on the cards for a while, but with drawdown from Lynx, this will leave a fairly small cadre of Army Aviation.
floating rock,
Surely there is nothing new here and it's old news? The AAC FW has long been heading for the RAF, the Gazelle AH1 fleet was to be retired some time ago but was extended, now being retired closer to the original planned date, and the Wildcat Squadrons at 1 Regt Yeovilton are 652, 659 and 661, as there are only 34 Army Wildcat. Hasn't this always been the plan, that the AAC would only be a small Apache force and an even smaller Wildcat force?
Surely there is nothing new here and it's old news? The AAC FW has long been heading for the RAF, the Gazelle AH1 fleet was to be retired some time ago but was extended, now being retired closer to the original planned date, and the Wildcat Squadrons at 1 Regt Yeovilton are 652, 659 and 661, as there are only 34 Army Wildcat. Hasn't this always been the plan, that the AAC would only be a small Apache force and an even smaller Wildcat force?
proone - the Corps had planned to keep Gazelle going for some time since there is nothing else, at the moment, to replace the 5 Regt effort which is definitely needed.
The Wildcat is a lemon with no role other than to keep Westlands going at Yeovil.
Still waiting for the decision re Wattisham Apache.
Its a mess and there are plenty of quality people trying desperately to try and make sense of which direction they are trying to go with the future of the Corps.
The Wildcat is a lemon with no role other than to keep Westlands going at Yeovil.
Still waiting for the decision re Wattisham Apache.
Its a mess and there are plenty of quality people trying desperately to try and make sense of which direction they are trying to go with the future of the Corps.
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Often thought it was a shame that they never restarted Gazelle production as really there is nothing similar in the class these days, I could see it being popular with small air arms and civilian users.
What about the EC120 Colibri? it looks very much like a Gazelle Mk.2 if you squint.
And as regards the Wildcat, I believe General Dannatt refused to countenance any alternative during his time as CGS, hence why the AAC is stuck with it.
And as regards the Wildcat, I believe General Dannatt refused to countenance any alternative during his time as CGS, hence why the AAC is stuck with it.
656 Sqdn at Farnborough didn't like them as they weren't as robust as the Scouts they operated alongside them, plus they required more maintenance than the Sioux they replaced eg frequent 'turbine washes' (whatever that is).
Chevron - the Stability Augmentation System (SAS) is a very simple rate damping system which adds very little complexity to the Gazelle.
The Spanish Air Force uses it for training all helo RW crews from all the branches of their mil and forms their Patrulla Aspa display team. The PLAAF uses their variant to train their RW crews.
cheers
chopper2004,
Has the Gazelle really been utilised in the scout role since proved disastrously unsuitable as such in 1982? I thought in this day and age that scouting is done by Apache and Wildcat and that Gazelle is merely a VSO runabout and a specialised Northern Ireland observation role?
Has the Gazelle really been utilised in the scout role since proved disastrously unsuitable as such in 1982? I thought in this day and age that scouting is done by Apache and Wildcat and that Gazelle is merely a VSO runabout and a specialised Northern Ireland observation role?
proone - the Gazelle was an excellent scout helicopter for many years, especially in the North German Plain role where it scouted for fire positions for the TOW-equipped Lynx. It is reliable and robust but it needs spares and that has been the problem over recent years.
The Apache does its own as you rightly say so the Wildcat is largely redundant in any role other than for the RN as a Frigate helo.
The aspiration for NI would probably be 135 or similar but where will the money come from?
No-one seems sure how prescient the Janes article is as there have been so many studies and other pieces of work looking at the future size of the AAC, none of which had the OSD for the Gazelle happening as early as 2018.
The Apache does its own as you rightly say so the Wildcat is largely redundant in any role other than for the RN as a Frigate helo.
The aspiration for NI would probably be 135 or similar but where will the money come from?
No-one seems sure how prescient the Janes article is as there have been so many studies and other pieces of work looking at the future size of the AAC, none of which had the OSD for the Gazelle happening as early as 2018.
Hi CGB
Yep I am aware of the H135M, however it appears there is more emphasis on the H145M especially from what I have seen especially last two Paris Air Shows .
The H135M or EC635 is in service with the Spanish Army, RJAF and Swiss Air Force albeit not in the armed scout role but combat support, training, and limited medevac / SAR. Albeitone can say we are the latest mil customer our Helionix equipped h135 Juno entering service with Ascent at Shawbury
I have seen the armed H135M back at Paris Airshow 2001 and 2003,
cheers
Yep I am aware of the H135M, however it appears there is more emphasis on the H145M especially from what I have seen especially last two Paris Air Shows .
The H135M or EC635 is in service with the Spanish Army, RJAF and Swiss Air Force albeit not in the armed scout role but combat support, training, and limited medevac / SAR. Albeitone can say we are the latest mil customer our Helionix equipped h135 Juno entering service with Ascent at Shawbury
I have seen the armed H135M back at Paris Airshow 2001 and 2003,
cheers
847 NAS were using the Gaz/Lynx team as recce/fires until comparatively recently when replaced by Wildcat, which is, by far, the best maritime attack helicopter the AAC has ever operated......shame there's not many submarines and fast patrol craft involved with most land battles....The further reductions in AAC strength (reduced AH numbers, 657 being disbanded, transfer of FW MAS to the RAF, removal of aircraft from 667) on top of the scrapping of 5 Reg does shine a rather pessimistic light on the future of the Corps. Given the demands on the LAND budget from other helicopter projects, I can't see there being much if any money to fund 145M or anything equivalent. Is there even a requirement? I would imagine that any lingering NI tasking will be sucked up by either a contractor or, at best, a COMO provision.
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...And, as stated in a letter to the Times last week, it is probably time to have a good long hard look at the RAFAT and BBMF if Booties are to be cut. Defence has to be about output and not hanging onto history.
Agree with Cows above. No - most definitely not.
Agree with Cows above. No - most definitely not.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
The Apache does its own as you rightly say so the Wildcat is largely redundant in any role other than for the RN as a Frigate helo.