It's still fun!!
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
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As a non-pilot I still look back at my 29 years with many happy memories ... I just wish I could remember all of them 
(I do get the occasional flashback, though, and reach for a PostIt note ... before wondering why I'm reaching for a PostIt note.)
(I do get the occasional flashback, though, and reach for a PostIt note ... before wondering why I'm reaching for a PostIt note.)
PrOOne - you didn't have to fail or get chopped to go rotary, on my BFT course there was one RW slot up for grabs and the guy who was penciled in for it failed his AIFG. That left a slot open and I bought a lot of beer for the Gp 3 Sqn Ldr who came to out role disposal
I knew FJ wasn't for me but I did get to fly in a Lightning in Cyprus courtesy of a mate from BFT when I was second tour Wessex there - what an awesome experience! But you are right, the horror stories from that fleet recounted at various drunken do's over the year convinced me that RW was definitely the way forward.
I knew FJ wasn't for me but I did get to fly in a Lightning in Cyprus courtesy of a mate from BFT when I was second tour Wessex there - what an awesome experience! But you are right, the horror stories from that fleet recounted at various drunken do's over the year convinced me that RW was definitely the way forward.
isaneng, perhaps the reason why there are more tales and reminiscences from those of us derided by digi-yoof as 'cold war warriors' is simply numerical?
There were more people in the RAF I joined than there are in the whole of the UK Armed Forces nowadays... Plus rather more RAF airfields and aircraft than there are today.
But with some RAF pilots not even being taught aerobatics these days, I can't accept that it's still quite the 'fun' you assert.
pr00ne, I'm sure that you and your colleagues dreaded being posted to Vulcans - quite understandable after making it to fast-jets. But after being chopped from the Bucc, the 3 years I had on the Tin Triangle in the late 1970s included perhaps the best quality of life in my entire career!
There were more people in the RAF I joined than there are in the whole of the UK Armed Forces nowadays... Plus rather more RAF airfields and aircraft than there are today.
But with some RAF pilots not even being taught aerobatics these days, I can't accept that it's still quite the 'fun' you assert.
pr00ne, I'm sure that you and your colleagues dreaded being posted to Vulcans - quite understandable after making it to fast-jets. But after being chopped from the Bucc, the 3 years I had on the Tin Triangle in the late 1970s included perhaps the best quality of life in my entire career!
BEagle,
In fairness my early V-Force phobia was purely out of ignorance. From what I saw later I can understand how you felt, especially after escaping from 237OCU, THAT place had quite a reputation!
My fears were, again, entirely 4FTS QFI driven, when I went through Valley the V-Force was still seen as hour after hour sat on alert with mind numbing high level stuff while Lord knows how many Navs down the back did whatever it was they did!
From what I saw and heard later my concerns were unfounded, and I can understand your feelings toward your tour.
[email protected],
Yes yes, you keep telling yourself that! No, seriously, I was talking purely from a Valley perspective, we were determined NOT to go anywhere but FJ, and if we DID go anywhere else then we HAD failed!
BFTS, and of course I am talking of an era when everybody did BFTS, was a very different matter, apart from ME of course... NOBODY wanted that!
In fairness my early V-Force phobia was purely out of ignorance. From what I saw later I can understand how you felt, especially after escaping from 237OCU, THAT place had quite a reputation!
My fears were, again, entirely 4FTS QFI driven, when I went through Valley the V-Force was still seen as hour after hour sat on alert with mind numbing high level stuff while Lord knows how many Navs down the back did whatever it was they did!
From what I saw and heard later my concerns were unfounded, and I can understand your feelings toward your tour.
[email protected],
Yes yes, you keep telling yourself that! No, seriously, I was talking purely from a Valley perspective, we were determined NOT to go anywhere but FJ, and if we DID go anywhere else then we HAD failed!
BFTS, and of course I am talking of an era when everybody did BFTS, was a very different matter, apart from ME of course... NOBODY wanted that!
At RAFC, I think that perhaps only one of my course genuinely wanted to fly ME. He had a valid reason - his father had flown Halifaxes and he wanted to follow as closely in his footsteps as he could.
Once upon a time at Brawdy, after one particularly demanding day of wet Welsh Wx during a LL formation session, one of the Flt Cdrs, a really nice chap with a fine sense of humour, was busily making himself a bacon butty and happened to remark "Well if you don't fancy this business, you can always volunteer to go to helicopters". He had a sly grin on his face as he continued with his culinary efforts.
Next day there were 2 less students in the crew room. A couple of them had been to the Boss to ask for helicopter postings. He said that he could arrange that PDQ; they just had to clear, pack their bags and leave the next day. For Finningley..... "You'll have to train as navigators first".
Once upon a time at Brawdy, after one particularly demanding day of wet Welsh Wx during a LL formation session, one of the Flt Cdrs, a really nice chap with a fine sense of humour, was busily making himself a bacon butty and happened to remark "Well if you don't fancy this business, you can always volunteer to go to helicopters". He had a sly grin on his face as he continued with his culinary efforts.
Next day there were 2 less students in the crew room. A couple of them had been to the Boss to ask for helicopter postings. He said that he could arrange that PDQ; they just had to clear, pack their bags and leave the next day. For Finningley..... "You'll have to train as navigators first".
I had a bit of both.
I was among the last to learn to fly on pistons followed by being among the last to do their AFS on the Vampire. My antique career followed by being sent off to Valiants, (Three choices, Victors Valiants or Vulcans). By pure good fortune I was, probably because I was attested in Rhodesia, not sent to Main Force but to tankers.
The first year was miserable. I was crewed up with a captain who was the reverse of what we know now as CRM. The next captain, Fred Jones, was completely the opposite and I had a great time flying around the world refuelling other aircraft at Queeny's expense.
However the thought of spending my life in the structured system of Bomber Command did not appeal to me at all and I was trying every way to get out of it. As far as I could see I was going to be in the V.Force for the rest of my twelve years.
Then the Valiants were grounded and the Air Secs were loaded with loads of pilots that had to be posted, somewhere. Borneo had blown up and there were rotary pilots out there who were due to come home and that was the Godsend. I, with several others were sent to Tern Hill to learn how to fly from 0 to 120, instead of 120 to M.09.
I was the best move in my whole life.
Allofasudden I was in charge of my aircraft. I made the decisions as to where it was going, what it was doing and how it was done. There were no senior officers looking over your shoulder and everybody was glad to see you.
Nothing changed for the next 43 years both military and civil.
I was among the last to learn to fly on pistons followed by being among the last to do their AFS on the Vampire. My antique career followed by being sent off to Valiants, (Three choices, Victors Valiants or Vulcans). By pure good fortune I was, probably because I was attested in Rhodesia, not sent to Main Force but to tankers.
The first year was miserable. I was crewed up with a captain who was the reverse of what we know now as CRM. The next captain, Fred Jones, was completely the opposite and I had a great time flying around the world refuelling other aircraft at Queeny's expense.
However the thought of spending my life in the structured system of Bomber Command did not appeal to me at all and I was trying every way to get out of it. As far as I could see I was going to be in the V.Force for the rest of my twelve years.
Then the Valiants were grounded and the Air Secs were loaded with loads of pilots that had to be posted, somewhere. Borneo had blown up and there were rotary pilots out there who were due to come home and that was the Godsend. I, with several others were sent to Tern Hill to learn how to fly from 0 to 120, instead of 120 to M.09.
I was the best move in my whole life.
Allofasudden I was in charge of my aircraft. I made the decisions as to where it was going, what it was doing and how it was done. There were no senior officers looking over your shoulder and everybody was glad to see you.
Nothing changed for the next 43 years both military and civil.
Re rotary/fixed wing banter - one of our tanker captains tried for a tour on helicopters. Got through Tern Hill and OCU but didnt make it through squadron conversion. Returned to tankers where he continued to be a very professional pilot and an excellent captain. No doubt there were ace helicopter pilots who would never have made it flying a 4 jet and running a crew.
Different strokes
Different strokes
Regards to you Jenkins, I can't imagine you ever losing that roguish twinkle!
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As one of those aviators from bygone days, and only ever a private pilot, my 23 years in the RAAF left me with many great memories. Having maintained various aircraft for 12 years, including having shared several years with RAF ground engineers at RAAF Base Edinburgh (South Australia) I trained as a C130A Flight Engineer, later also C130E and H models as well as B707 when the RAAF acquired that type. Many hours were spent in the company of some great crews, quite a few of whom I shared the flight deck with in my later civil F/E career. The time honoured banter between the fast pointy thing drivers and the rest, you know, rotary wing, trash haulers and feet wet folk was almost always friendly. Having been grounded (medical) a few years back has been a bitter pill to swallow. I do enjoy PPRuNe, except when the forum discussion gets hijacked by people who used it only as a "whinge tool". Thanks to all those who can keep a smile on their face, and mine, despite the occasional gripe we all sometimes feel.
No doubt there were ace helicopter pilots who would never have made it flying a 4 jet and running a crew.
And we don't have crews to run on helicopters??????????? Not seen a SAR crew in action then? Or a Chinny crew for that matter?
No doubt there were ace 4 jet pilots who would never had made it making instant decisions and changing the game to suit the situation.
Anyway, why dig in when you can check in?
Now we ALL know that no doubt there were ace RW and ME who would never had made it to FJ (Group 1 or whatever it was called in your particular day) as they got chopped...
As I said earlier - I didn't get chopped
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I read extracts from a book written by a second generation senior Royal Air Force Officer. His father was Commandant of the Towers and he (the son) retired as a G.C.
In his book he described a posting in Scotland where he said that the MQ were little different to those on the local council estate.
Three wives of former very senior officers wrote in similar terms in their book entitled "Living in the Slipstream: Life as an RAF Wife", the forward to which was written by the Duchess of
Cambridge.
Without overseas postings, what does the Royal Air Force offer recruits which is not offered by the Army or Royal Navy?
The Army has attack helicopters. The Navy will soon (once again) have fast jets and helicopters.
Of course for those with the requisite flying skills, flying Royal Air Force war birds is going to be fun, but for those who do not, what kind of career can they look forward to?
My late step mother was an RAF Officer stationed at Northwood during the Falklands War. She enjoyed it and did well, she was promoted at the end of it. What role did the R.A.F. play in that? Attempting to destroy a runway? Running out of fuel and being forced to land in Brazil?
Once the new RN aircraft carrier is fully operational and is capable as part of a fleet of deploying on exercises in all the oceans, the role of the R.A.F. will shrink further. Who needs air to air refuelling when one has a floating runway close by?
Apologies for being cynical about the future of the service, but with defence cuts likely to continue, the high costs of maintaining the Royal Navy will have to come from somewhere.
In his book he described a posting in Scotland where he said that the MQ were little different to those on the local council estate.
Three wives of former very senior officers wrote in similar terms in their book entitled "Living in the Slipstream: Life as an RAF Wife", the forward to which was written by the Duchess of
Cambridge.
Without overseas postings, what does the Royal Air Force offer recruits which is not offered by the Army or Royal Navy?
The Army has attack helicopters. The Navy will soon (once again) have fast jets and helicopters.
Of course for those with the requisite flying skills, flying Royal Air Force war birds is going to be fun, but for those who do not, what kind of career can they look forward to?
My late step mother was an RAF Officer stationed at Northwood during the Falklands War. She enjoyed it and did well, she was promoted at the end of it. What role did the R.A.F. play in that? Attempting to destroy a runway? Running out of fuel and being forced to land in Brazil?
Once the new RN aircraft carrier is fully operational and is capable as part of a fleet of deploying on exercises in all the oceans, the role of the R.A.F. will shrink further. Who needs air to air refuelling when one has a floating runway close by?
Apologies for being cynical about the future of the service, but with defence cuts likely to continue, the high costs of maintaining the Royal Navy will have to come from somewhere.
Last edited by roving; 18th Sep 2017 at 18:01. Reason: replaced Kent with Cambridge
roving,
Oh dear!
I suggest that you go away and read up on the Falklands, the RAF role in the Falklands, the operation of the F-35B Lightning in the UK military, the part that the RAF will play in embarked ops and finally, the range of possible employment in the modern day RAF, then perhaps you will be able to address this display of woeful ignorance...
Oh dear!
I suggest that you go away and read up on the Falklands, the RAF role in the Falklands, the operation of the F-35B Lightning in the UK military, the part that the RAF will play in embarked ops and finally, the range of possible employment in the modern day RAF, then perhaps you will be able to address this display of woeful ignorance...
[email protected],
I know, of COURSE you didn't! And, as I said earlier, am only joshing, and have tongue firmly inserted into cheek...
I know, of COURSE you didn't! And, as I said earlier, am only joshing, and have tongue firmly inserted into cheek...
In the 1970 we used to refuel at shiny RAF bases going to and from N.I. or exercise areas. The engineers would look in horror at the trails of mud our wheels were leaving and a similar amount on our boots.
We didn't wear medals but if we had there would have been a phalanx of GSMs, some with a bar or two. Occasionally a DFC or AFC would have been earned. We would suffer the condescending smiles of the shiny jet pilots of Fighter and Bomber Command, now known as Strike Command.
Who hadn't fired a shot in anger since 1945.
We didn't wear medals but if we had there would have been a phalanx of GSMs, some with a bar or two. Occasionally a DFC or AFC would have been earned. We would suffer the condescending smiles of the shiny jet pilots of Fighter and Bomber Command, now known as Strike Command.
Who hadn't fired a shot in anger since 1945.
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