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BBMF Grounded

Old 19th Aug 2017, 17:52
  #61 (permalink)  
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Dang.....better ground every single warbird with a geared distributor drive worldwide.

They're all gonna fall out of the sky at the same moment!!!!!!!
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 17:58
  #62 (permalink)  
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Do people really say "Dang"? Thought t was just in the movies.
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 19:06
  #63 (permalink)  
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No...`Gosh,dash it all,chaps`!...FFS...
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 08:06
  #64 (permalink)  
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There are a number of civilian overhaul companies out there, BBMF use one of them, while civilian warbirds operators use others. I note RRs Mk19 hasn't been out for a while, does anyone know if this is engine related (yes, I realise it's Griffon not Merlin).

Last edited by Stitchbitch; 20th Aug 2017 at 08:21.
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 14:55
  #65 (permalink)  
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The 19 has been putting on a great performance here in Eastbourne.
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 15:43
  #66 (permalink)  
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I know there us a tendency in the UK to pour scorn on experts and common sense- lets deafen all the men working on Big Ben , they are only workmen we still want to here that chimes that Napolean and Hitler couldnt stop etc etc. Surely we can keep the BBMF going , Dunkirk spirit etc etc

As has been said these aircraft are very very old and were designed with a life expectancy in months not decades and the lovely exploded view of a Merlin (no pun) earkeir on shows just why recips were ditched the moment they solved the metallurgy problems of jets - too many moving bits in conflict with each other.

Now i absolutely adore the sound of a Merlin and no book aviation or otherwise had a better title than Spit test pilot, Alex Henshaw's, wonderful 'Sigh for a Merlin'. But surely if there is a problem ground the aircraft for a few months and fix it rather than risk a catastrophic display accident which post Shoreham could well be the death knell for UK Airshows.

And having said that i ahve had the delight this weekend of seeing and hearing two Merlins , one I think on a Hurricane ( but I might have been wrong with that one) and then just a few hours ago a P 51 snarling across the sky over Camberley ( the Hurricane , cos it was surely not a Spit ) took the same route . Was I right about the identification , as they dodged from view through the tree canopy heading North to South. I do love the sound of big piston props on a fast moving fighter
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 16:23
  #67 (permalink)  
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That would be all well and good if the BBMF aircraft were being 'worked hard and put away wet', and if they were subject to the rigours of a wartime environment, and wartime servicing, out in the open.

Except that the Spitfire and Hurricane were never designed to 'last months' in the way that (say) the Bf 109 was, and were designed to be as rugged and as robust as it was possible to make them.

And then there's the fact that these aircraft have been stripped down and rebuilt using an astonishing array of new parts - in many cases today's flying Spits are new aircraft built around a genuine data plate, and with original parts used simply as patterns.

They simply aren't the creaking geriatrics that you imply (unlike some of the posters on here).

Moreover these aircraft are minutely inspected - frequently, and are subject to a 'no expense spared' maintenance and overhaul regime that means that every part that can wear out will have been replaced - probably several times, and that parts that are subject to fatigue will be even more carefully looked after.
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 16:28
  #68 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by captainsmiffy View Post
Surely if it all went quiet up problem...i've seen Dunkirk and the engine out performance of even a Mk 1 Spitfire is just incredible......

Yea, I noticed that too. There are gliders that don't glide as good as that particular Spitfire!

500 Fan.
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 13:16
  #69 (permalink)  
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Thats a fair point and i wasnt at all meaning to imply that the Hurricane and Spitfire were throw away designs. As you say they are still going strong in many respects but there was as they say a war on and corners sometimes had to be cut and perhaps the materials spec was a bit looser than say on a modern airliner. Oddly enough i though one of the reasons we ended up on the winning side was because unlike the Germans who engineered everything (at least in the earlier years) we , perhaps at items through necessity, did recognise that life cycles in war are short and that a better version is always just around the corner. Of course by 1944 Germany was on an synthetic/ersatz/rationed economy for almost everything and they couldnt make some of the futuristic designs they came up with and if they could it was in tiny inefectual quantities

However the point I was trying to make is that today they fly for fun and to remind us of times no one (well almost know one) wants to repeat ie a beautiful continent torn apart in war. They are not being sent up to defend London or rain fire on Hamburg they are just decorating the sky looking and sounding wonderful. However if there was to be a fatal accident and the cause was a known engine problem then the BBMF would be grounded and for good too and that would be an awful shame , in fact a tragedy because as any real memory of the horrors of WW2 are almost completely gone , younger generations need something to get them interested in what happened and why and these wonderful preserved aircraft are probably the most inspiring tools for that job.
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 15:32
  #70 (permalink)  
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Is it a verified fact that the BBMF's current problems are with the magneto drive, or does all this discussion stem from an 'I once read a book by Alex Henshaw' statement?

Last edited by Mike51; 21st Aug 2017 at 16:16.
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Old 30th Aug 2017, 08:20
  #71 (permalink)  
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So, after 4 pages about magneto drives and glide ratios of Spitfires, it transpires that the issue is a chipped tooth on a pinnon gear in the reduction gearing. Nothing to do with magneto drives.
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Old 30th Aug 2017, 08:54
  #72 (permalink)  
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Why has that led to a fleet grounding - did the BBMF have a whole batch of these remanufactured and fitted in all their Merlins?

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Old 30th Aug 2017, 14:09
  #73 (permalink)  
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I heard from a Warbird pilot here at work that they found metal fragments (he didn't know their origin) but the SOAP (Spectrographic Oil Analysis Programme) tests didn't show up anything out of the ordinary. Therefore, a 'better safe than sorry' inspection of all the other engines was called for to better understand why the SOAP tests didn't give a warning.
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Old 1st Sep 2017, 18:35
  #74 (permalink)  
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Actung Spitfire Buzzed by PR19 at 1930 local, couple pf passes then final pass over the house rocking his wings as he climber away.
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Old 1st Sep 2017, 22:02
  #75 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Why has that led to a fleet grounding - did the BBMF have a whole batch of these remanufactured and fitted in all their Merlins?

No, the crank gear on one engine was found cracked. All other gearboxes are to be checked. I believe all gears are original manufacture, but have proven to be very reliable in service.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 07:22
  #76 (permalink)  
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Griffon engine , probably an ex Shack. 57'?
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 11:13
  #77 (permalink)  
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pax britanica:

we still want to here that chimes that Napolean and Hitler couldnt stop etc etc.
I expect that you mean Napoleon, the great French warrior who died 37 years before they built "Big Ben" and therefore would not have been in a position to silence it.
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Old 5th Sep 2017, 08:06
  #78 (permalink)  
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PN, that was a flypast for the 92 Sqn Centenary Dinner being held at the Golf Hotel, Woodhall Spa that evening.
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Old 5th Sep 2017, 11:50
  #79 (permalink)  
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Two BBMF aircraft are being advertised for the static park at this weekends Scampton airshow.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 20:30
  #80 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bobward View Post
Two BBMF aircraft are being advertised for the static park at this weekends Scampton airshow.
Scampton have emailed that subject to a air test tomorrow, the BBMF Lancaster and a Hurricane, plus a Griffon-Spitfire will display at Scampton this weekend
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