Court Martial Results
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Sergeant
Sergeant, sometimes serjeant ... origins are in the Latin serviens, "one who serves", through the French term sergent. In most armies the rank of sergeant corresponds to command of a squad (or section).
We used to refer to one particularly annoying man of French Canadian extraction, a senior NCO in the USAF, as "Sir John T" (which is a bad play on words from serjeant). That guy was all up himself, and tried to be overly familiar with the officers, as USAF habits accrue, but those of us from the other three services didn't quite care for the country club casual mode of the USAF. One Marine major was particularly good at getting him to remember to mind his manners ...
Sergeant, sometimes serjeant ... origins are in the Latin serviens, "one who serves", through the French term sergent. In most armies the rank of sergeant corresponds to command of a squad (or section).
We used to refer to one particularly annoying man of French Canadian extraction, a senior NCO in the USAF, as "Sir John T" (which is a bad play on words from serjeant). That guy was all up himself, and tried to be overly familiar with the officers, as USAF habits accrue, but those of us from the other three services didn't quite care for the country club casual mode of the USAF. One Marine major was particularly good at getting him to remember to mind his manners ...
Sergeant, sometimes serjeant ... origins are in the Latin serviens, "one who serves",
All very confusing!
Nearly right. You are referring to the Household Cavalry made up of the Life Guards and the Blues and Royals or more correctly Royal Horse Guards/Dragoons. Other Royal Armoured Corps Regiments, be they Hussars, Cavalry, Lancers or Dragoons use the same rank structure and naming convention as the remainder of the Army. Colour Sergeant in place of Staff Sergeant is peculiar to the Infantry only and of course, Bombadier/Lance Bombadier replacing Corporal/Lance Corporal in the Royal Artillery. The other peculiarity of the Houshold Division is the Foot Guards Lance Corporal will wear two chevrons, a Corporal equivalent is termed a Lance Sergeant and wears three chevrons. A full Sergeant is only distinguished in formal wear (gold vs white chevrons), in working dress, the rank slides are indistinguishable.
From my memory so may not be absolutely correct.
From my memory so may not be absolutely correct.
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Nearly right. You are referring to the Household Cavalry made up of the Life Guards and the Blues and Royals or more correctly Royal Horse Guards/Dragoons. Other Royal Armoured Corps Regiments, be they Hussars, Cavalry, Lancers or Dragoons use the same rank structure and naming convention as the remainder of the Army. Colour Sergeant in place of Staff Sergeant is peculiar to the Infantry only and of course, Bombadier/Lance Bombadier replacing Corporal/Lance Corporal in the Royal Artillery. The other peculiarity of the Houshold Division is the Foot Guards Lance Corporal will wear two chevrons, a Corporal equivalent is termed a Lance Sergeant and wears three chevrons. A full Sergeant is only distinguished in formal wear (gold vs white chevrons), in working dress, the rank slides are indistinguishable.
From my memory so may not be absolutely correct.
From my memory so may not be absolutely correct.
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All infintely better than being an RAF pilot officer (remember them?) with the almost invisible thin 'ring'.
"Oh, there's something on your shoulder ... oh, sorry, it's your rank braid"
"Oh, there's something on your shoulder ... oh, sorry, it's your rank braid"
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Having edited the original thread title, what is there is now correct. Those thinking otherwise please follow the links in posts 3 & 4 where the title used by HMG is Court Martial Results.
Gentleman Aviator
The Green Jackets - so presumably now the Rifles - had/have Serjeants rather than Sergeants...
One recalls all the Mess signs being repainted when they became resident battalion at Aldergrove!
One recalls all the Mess signs being repainted when they became resident battalion at Aldergrove!
Just to add to the confusion some Household Cavalry rank insignia looks like other army insignia but means something different. For example, a Lance Corporal of Horse (Corporal equivalent) wears 3 chevrons and a crown, similar to a staff/colour sgt in the rest of the army.
The other peculiarity of the Household Division is the Foot Guards Lance Corporal will wear two chevrons, a Corporal equivalent is termed a Lance Sergeant and wears three chevrons.
I had a chum, now deceased, who had been a Conductor in the the Royal Army Ordnance Corps, (later the Royal Logistics Corps) who were at the time the most senior warrant officers in the British Army. This obviously rankled with the guards, so much so that in recent years they have invented the new appointment of Army Sergeant Major, whose holder takes precedence over conductors in the RLC.
Thanks for the correction re Household Cavalry Sloppy Link. My father was a lance sergeant in the Scots Guards, and I still have his tunic which dates from 1923, complete with its white chevrons.
I had a chum, now deceased, who had been a Conductor in the the Royal Army Ordnance Corps, (later the Royal Logistics Corps) who were at the time the most senior warrant officers in the British Army. This obviously rankled with the guards, so much so that in recent years they have invented the new appointment of Army Sergeant Major, whose holder takes precedence over conductors in the RLC.
I had a chum, now deceased, who had been a Conductor in the the Royal Army Ordnance Corps, (later the Royal Logistics Corps) who were at the time the most senior warrant officers in the British Army. This obviously rankled with the guards, so much so that in recent years they have invented the new appointment of Army Sergeant Major, whose holder takes precedence over conductors in the RLC.
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I love the way the Army does things
TTN - Please, not a correction, an expansion of what you had posted.
VG - Continuing the theme of an expansion, LCoH is three chevrons and a cloth crown (Cpl equivalent), CoH is the same with a metal crown (Sgt equivalent). SCpl is four chevrons inverted with a crown (SSgt/CSgt equivalent).....worn on the lower sleeve. Warrant Officer Class I/II is the rank, it is the appointment that carries to become.....Squadron Corporal Major, Regimental Quartemaster Corporal and the Regimental Corporal Major.
As for senior Warrant Officer, again, the rank is Warrant Officer Class I, it is the appointment that counts. The litmus test is pay scales, broadly, all are paid the same for their rank (unless they have been commissioned but are, in the interests of the Service, held at their current rank. There is an equation such they are not disadvantaged when they finally wear their commissioned rank in both pay increments and seniority)
Again, apologies if my memory isn't quite there.
VG - Continuing the theme of an expansion, LCoH is three chevrons and a cloth crown (Cpl equivalent), CoH is the same with a metal crown (Sgt equivalent). SCpl is four chevrons inverted with a crown (SSgt/CSgt equivalent).....worn on the lower sleeve. Warrant Officer Class I/II is the rank, it is the appointment that carries to become.....Squadron Corporal Major, Regimental Quartemaster Corporal and the Regimental Corporal Major.
As for senior Warrant Officer, again, the rank is Warrant Officer Class I, it is the appointment that counts. The litmus test is pay scales, broadly, all are paid the same for their rank (unless they have been commissioned but are, in the interests of the Service, held at their current rank. There is an equation such they are not disadvantaged when they finally wear their commissioned rank in both pay increments and seniority)
Again, apologies if my memory isn't quite there.
The pseudo rank/appointment of Army Sergeant Major may be the most senior, but conductor is most certainly the oldest, and comes from the time when England did not have a standing army. When troops were needed for foreign campaigns it was the job of the conductor to assemble men and to "conduct" them to their port of embarkation. Later, the appointment became conductor of ordnance, and now it was his job to ensure that artillery and other heavy ordnance got to the ships.
Nothing to do with bands or buses !
Nothing to do with bands or buses !
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Back to Courts Martial. If memory serves me, we had one onboard my ship at sea while passaging the Indian Ocean in summer 1979. Quite a rare occasion I believe in modern times.
