Most difficult formation aerobatic manoeuvre?
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Most difficult formation aerobatic manoeuvre?
I was watching the PdF the other day and they did an individual slow-roll in formation - i.e. all aircraft slow rolling about their own axis, but the formation as a whole staying straight and level. I would guess that much more difficult than a formation roll as visual references would be constantly changing.
But I am no expert, so what would be considered the most difficult formation aerobatic manoeuvre?
But I am no expert, so what would be considered the most difficult formation aerobatic manoeuvre?
I don't think they roll in formation particularly slowly, at least not in the traditional slow roll sense. I doubt that they use any rudder and would guess (and it is just that) that it is only aileron input making it much easier as there is much less co-ordination and therefore so much less to go wrong.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
43 Sqn found the St Andrew's Cross a bit of a handful. Mainly because it was an illegal formation because it left the crew in the middle nowhere to go - as they found out......
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My experience in larger fast jets was any rolling maneuver 2 or more out because of the distance you had to move to stay on the wing line. It generally went well quite until the horizon appeared upside down then I was a goner. 🙃
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I'm sorry for the crappiness of my tale but....
As a staff cadet with an AEF, I was allowed to fly with a UAS CFI who was no.2 to the UAS CO on a planned formation flypast.
I expected to be told to shut up and sit still (happy to do so) but once in the air I was asked what I had got up to in the 'dog etc and was then asked if I had flown formation before. I had not. This was my one and only formation flight and it was a disaster from my seat. I have never been so humbled as when my pilot took the stick back and suddenly everything went from bucking bronco to completely calm. The aircraft started obeying his orders and everything.
Maybe I didn't have the skills after all, and the cadets was a cheap way for the RAF to find out!
Anyway, I now have a small insight in to what I am watching display teams do, and an ever greater level of respect!
As a staff cadet with an AEF, I was allowed to fly with a UAS CFI who was no.2 to the UAS CO on a planned formation flypast.
I expected to be told to shut up and sit still (happy to do so) but once in the air I was asked what I had got up to in the 'dog etc and was then asked if I had flown formation before. I had not. This was my one and only formation flight and it was a disaster from my seat. I have never been so humbled as when my pilot took the stick back and suddenly everything went from bucking bronco to completely calm. The aircraft started obeying his orders and everything.
Maybe I didn't have the skills after all, and the cadets was a cheap way for the RAF to find out!
Anyway, I now have a small insight in to what I am watching display teams do, and an ever greater level of respect!
Didn't the Reds do a "Leaders Benefit" roll where 2&3 were in normal echelon on the Leader and all the rest were line abreast on them? That would be v tricky for everyone (except 2&3). Looked nice though……
This was my one and only formation flight and it was a disaster from my seat. I have never been so humbled as when my pilot took the stick back and suddenly everything went from bucking bronco to completely calm. The aircraft started obeying his orders and everything.
Maybe I didn't have the skills after all, and the cadets was a cheap way for the RAF to find out!
Maybe I didn't have the skills after all, and the cadets was a cheap way for the RAF to find out!
OAP
Thread Starter
I don't think they roll in formation particularly slowly, at least not in the traditional slow roll sense. I doubt that they use any rudder and would guess (and it is just that) that it is only aileron input making it much easier as there is much less co-ordination and therefore so much less to go wrong.
After a few years - Me: Just about OK
ORAC, I believe the 'problem' with 43 Sqn's attempt at the St Andrew's Cross was all in the planning stage! Weren't the No2 (abeam the Ldr) and the No3 (middle man) both taking references solely off the same side of the leader with no plan of how they themselves would stay apart? Being on the same side as the Ldr the inevitable happened!
Had they stepped down the No3 the risk of collision would have been considerably reduced.
Had they stepped down the No3 the risk of collision would have been considerably reduced.
The hardest manœuvre for me was the 2 out line abreast barrel roll. This was made harder by the engine response being slower than older jets and meant that position had to be maintained by use of the airbrake.
As for rolling in formation, the Red Arrows did a seven echelon twinkle roll in the Gnat but they did open the formation out a bit to do it.
As for rolling in formation, the Red Arrows did a seven echelon twinkle roll in the Gnat but they did open the formation out a bit to do it.
He did say that there were ground lessons and excercises leading up to studes doing formation, and, whilst my hours count was relatively high (against the studes), we did not follow a training syllabus as such and therefore my learning had been somewhat more freeform in nature! So, there are some excuses, but it is still a bit deflating to think about! I learnt a lot about flying on that AEF!
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ORAC, I believe the 'problem' with 43 Sqn's attempt at the St Andrew's Cross was all in the planning stage! Weren't the No2 (abeam the Ldr) and the No3 (middle man) both taking references solely off the same side of the leader with no plan of how they themselves would stay apart?