Air to Air kill over Raqqa
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 910
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From: England
https://cdn.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2017/Jun/18/LiveLeak-dot-com-e2d_1497820763-21478648_0_1497820773.jpg?oIYq6gQ7kTvhdjpRhteacvyOcrXLTT1iT-LDwu5E2d02meVeGDFa9h3aYykjf7N8&ec_rate=499
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Somewhere Sunny
Simples!
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 487
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From: North Up
Has any Western Air Force fighter ever been shot down by another fighter in the Middle East ?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 16,699
Likes: 54
From: Lincolnshire
Cazalet, I read the question the other way around. An RAF fighter was shot down by Israeli aircraft in 1949 (one of 5 lost)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 48
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From: birmingham
The loss of a F-18 to a Iraqi MiG-25 on the first night of GW1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Speicher
Unless anyone knows different this is what happened ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Speicher
Unless anyone knows different this is what happened ?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 813
Likes: 50
From: Lechlade, Glos.UK
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 54
From: Under a recently defunct flight path.
Russia warns US-led coalition over downing of Syrian jet
In The Graudian:-
Russia’s defence ministry has said it will treat any plane from the US-led coalition flying west of the Euphrates river in Syria as a potential target, after the US military shot down a Syrian air force jet on Sunday.
The ministry also said it was suspending a safety agreement with Washington designed to prevent collisions and dangerous incidents in Syrian airspace.
The ministry also said it was suspending a safety agreement with Washington designed to prevent collisions and dangerous incidents in Syrian airspace.
Joined: Aug 2009
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 9,328
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From: Texas
As I posted on JB, somewhat edited:
The Russian response is unfortunate, but it is quite understandable.
The situation is a many vs many with a variety of people backing various factions and thus creating chances for error/getting in each other's way. (see the Turk/Russian issue of a shoot down last year)
A variety of forces on the ground are getting air support: except for air support by SAF for Assad's forces, all air support seems to be sourced from various outsiders. Given the mess that this whole thing is, I'd say that something like this was bound to happen. (The Turk F-16 on the Frogger was a clue).
Assad doesn't trust "the West" with much of anything, so an overture like "hey, let's all gang up on the ISIS crew and sort the rest of this out later" is a likely no-sale transaction. Therefore, the many vs many continues.
You are the pilot of a fast jet, and you see some aircraft attacking your ally from the air, or setting up for another target run? What do you do?
I wonder if there was a better way to deal with this than "weapons free" given that (I think) this happened in Syrian Airspace (more or less). Probably not. I suspect this engagement fit a clear RoE.
President Trump authorized the Tomahawk attack on a Syrian air base (some months back, vis a vis the chem weapons attack, reported to be from that base) and I suspect that (given the SU-22 being the delivery platform for that event (alleged)) someone's logic chain at the CJTF (or in DC, since Micro Management is alive and well) was "we are preventing a gas attack" or something like that. Might just have been "stop the attack on our allied ground forces."
It's A Big Freaking Mess that Just Got Messier.
The Russian response is unfortunate, but it is quite understandable.
Russia, Syria's main ally, said it was also halting communications with the US aimed at preventing air incidents.
A variety of forces on the ground are getting air support: except for air support by SAF for Assad's forces, all air support seems to be sourced from various outsiders. Given the mess that this whole thing is, I'd say that something like this was bound to happen. (The Turk F-16 on the Frogger was a clue).
Assad doesn't trust "the West" with much of anything, so an overture like "hey, let's all gang up on the ISIS crew and sort the rest of this out later" is a likely no-sale transaction. Therefore, the many vs many continues.
You are the pilot of a fast jet, and you see some aircraft attacking your ally from the air, or setting up for another target run? What do you do?
I wonder if there was a better way to deal with this than "weapons free" given that (I think) this happened in Syrian Airspace (more or less). Probably not. I suspect this engagement fit a clear RoE.
President Trump authorized the Tomahawk attack on a Syrian air base (some months back, vis a vis the chem weapons attack, reported to be from that base) and I suspect that (given the SU-22 being the delivery platform for that event (alleged)) someone's logic chain at the CJTF (or in DC, since Micro Management is alive and well) was "we are preventing a gas attack" or something like that. Might just have been "stop the attack on our allied ground forces."
It's A Big Freaking Mess that Just Got Messier.
Evertonian
Joined: May 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
Posts: 13,461
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From: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
Have we heard from the Pprune Moscow bureau yet?
Anyway, I see the RAAF are staying on the ground for a bit now...
Anyway, I see the RAAF are staying on the ground for a bit now...
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: New South Wales
Dan Brown
I am sure the Australian serving personnel will do whatever is required of them. Political masters on the other hand..........
Also, perhaps having a pause to think about the situation may not go astray. Lonewolf put it very well "It's A Big Freaking Mess that Just Got Messier."
I am sure the Australian serving personnel will do whatever is required of them. Political masters on the other hand..........
Also, perhaps having a pause to think about the situation may not go astray. Lonewolf put it very well "It's A Big Freaking Mess that Just Got Messier."