Saudi Arabia vs Iran
Iran would defeat Saudi in a couple of Days at worst.....so long as the Western Powers stayed the heck out of it.
That, alas, shall not happen as that would give the Iranians full control of the Persian Gulf and a huge amount of Oil (not so much the Oil itself but the Revenue it brings in on the World Market).
As they are a bit belligerent of late....if they had control....would they become far more willing to deal in a more acceptable manner with the Western Powers?
That, alas, shall not happen as that would give the Iranians full control of the Persian Gulf and a huge amount of Oil (not so much the Oil itself but the Revenue it brings in on the World Market).
As they are a bit belligerent of late....if they had control....would they become far more willing to deal in a more acceptable manner with the Western Powers?
Okay, it's only a matter of time before the generic "how many Iranians vs how many Saudis" involved in 9/11 argument comes out, but....women can vote in Iran, democratically elected governments have far more power in Iran....their modus operandi is far closer to ours in the west than Saudi. They're a more natural fit.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Moscow region
Age: 65
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Meanwhile:
"Ahead of the US president's visit to Saudi Arabia, a series of multi-billion-dollar arms deals have been outlined. The previous US administration suspended some supplies because of human rights concerns"
Source: US nears $100 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia ahead of Trump?s trip | News | DW.COM | 13.05.2017
Tens times more than Russia-Iran are fantasying about.
IMHO, both Iran and SA are rather a threat to European civilization currently.
"Ahead of the US president's visit to Saudi Arabia, a series of multi-billion-dollar arms deals have been outlined. The previous US administration suspended some supplies because of human rights concerns"
Source: US nears $100 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia ahead of Trump?s trip | News | DW.COM | 13.05.2017
Tens times more than Russia-Iran are fantasying about.
IMHO, both Iran and SA are rather a threat to European civilization currently.
Without oil both countries would fall back into oblivion. Nations of sheep and camel herders living in a middle age society. And that would be the end of their story. Who in the West would really care about this dry arid land? The conflict Iran vs SA would just be another shrug in the rest of the world.
Sadly, as long as the West does not get rid of its dependency on oil, it will always have 'interests' in the region especially SA. And of course there is the military-industrial complex making a few bucks with that misery.
What really bothers me, how can any civilized open society with human rights support any of those countries?
Sadly, as long as the West does not get rid of its dependency on oil, it will always have 'interests' in the region especially SA. And of course there is the military-industrial complex making a few bucks with that misery.
What really bothers me, how can any civilized open society with human rights support any of those countries?
Because it's convenient for both parties.
We despise them, they despise us. The only thing that brings both parties at a table rather peacefully is a mutual interest, which is the one you wrote about.
We despise them, they despise us. The only thing that brings both parties at a table rather peacefully is a mutual interest, which is the one you wrote about.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,091
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If Iran attacked Saudi Arabia they would also take Bahrain, Iran claims Bahrain as its own anyway, has done for years. I believe that apart from being the home of the American 7th(?) Fleet Bahrain has a defence agreement with the UK so an attack by Iran on SA could turn into a seriously messy business.
In any Saudi v Iran/Sunni via Shia conflict, you also have to take into account that only one sect has a nuclear capability (and who funded it). How are Pakistan/Saudi relations these days?
Without oil both countries would fall back into oblivion. Nations of sheep and camel herders living in a middle age society. And that would be the end of their story. Who in the West would really care about this dry arid land? The conflict Iran vs SA would just be another shrug in the rest of the world.
@skydiver69,
I was, obviously, oversimplifying. However, without oil how many Western governments would go to war over there? I reckon, the answer is close to nil. That would be political suicide.
Btw, met some very bright ppl from Iran years ago who fled after 79 and settled in the US. Sad loss for Iran.
I was, obviously, oversimplifying. However, without oil how many Western governments would go to war over there? I reckon, the answer is close to nil. That would be political suicide.
Btw, met some very bright ppl from Iran years ago who fled after 79 and settled in the US. Sad loss for Iran.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure, both sides detest one another but they've so far managed to stop short of massacring one another. There's been nothing to suggest that's about to change. It's in both sides' interest that this continues; what would Iran gain from attacking Saudi? Even if they could be guaranteed everything went their way militarily, which is by no means a given, they'd become North Korea just as they're about to come in from the cold.
Following from "wondering"....
.....I had an interesting four hour chat with an Iranian business man after a fortunate upgrade for me.
He reckoned that there was an "arc of competence" of Iran, northern Iraq, Jordan, Syria and over into north Africa. where they would always thrive. Mainly because they were educated, intelligent and entrepreneurial. The others, Kuwaitis UAE and Saudi, he reckoned would revert to the stone age without oil in pretty short order.
I have no opinion here, I just listened as he worked his way through a bottle of Emirates nice burgundy.
He had been on a visit to Iran for family reasons but he kept his own family and businesses out of Iran. He had no time for the religious zealots and thought that rabid old men were keeping the rest of the young people in Iran from developing their potential in the world.
All in all it was in interesting perspective on a place I've often flown over and would love to visit. but not under the present regime.
The Ancient Mainer
He reckoned that there was an "arc of competence" of Iran, northern Iraq, Jordan, Syria and over into north Africa. where they would always thrive. Mainly because they were educated, intelligent and entrepreneurial. The others, Kuwaitis UAE and Saudi, he reckoned would revert to the stone age without oil in pretty short order.
I have no opinion here, I just listened as he worked his way through a bottle of Emirates nice burgundy.
He had been on a visit to Iran for family reasons but he kept his own family and businesses out of Iran. He had no time for the religious zealots and thought that rabid old men were keeping the rest of the young people in Iran from developing their potential in the world.
All in all it was in interesting perspective on a place I've often flown over and would love to visit. but not under the present regime.
The Ancient Mainer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd go along wothtat to some degree
Workwise Iranians, Iraqi's, Egyptian, Palestinian & Syrian professionals are pretty good - or they were
Not so sure about Libyans & Saudis.............. and never met enough Algerians to form a view
Workwise Iranians, Iraqi's, Egyptian, Palestinian & Syrian professionals are pretty good - or they were
Not so sure about Libyans & Saudis.............. and never met enough Algerians to form a view
If Iran attacked Saudi Arabia they would also take Bahrain, Iran claims Bahrain as its own anyway, has done for years. I believe that apart from being the home of the American 7th(?) Fleet Bahrain has a defence agreement with the UK so an attack by Iran on SA could turn into a seriously messy business.
Yup, took a cab across the causeway to Bahrain during Ramadan. The driver was planning on staying and partying it up because Allah couldn't see outside SA, so he was safe.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wondering
You wrote <<Without oil both countries would fall back into oblivion. Nations of sheep and camel herders living in a middle age society. And that would be the end of their story. Who in the West would really care about this dry arid land? >>
Perhaps you should look at the intrigues around the Suez crisis - the motivations were not about oil and not only about the Suez canal, the crushing of Syria was in the arguments too. Those middle eastern nations have never been given a chance, their best leaders murdered (start with Nasser for example) or otherwise dealt with (eg Mossadegh of Iran) - whatever the economic arguments (oil, canal, whatever) the greatest problem for any budding sovereign nation state in the region is that if they become strong and prosperous they become a potential threat to Israel, so they are nipped in the bud - it has to be said.
You wrote <<Without oil both countries would fall back into oblivion. Nations of sheep and camel herders living in a middle age society. And that would be the end of their story. Who in the West would really care about this dry arid land? >>
Perhaps you should look at the intrigues around the Suez crisis - the motivations were not about oil and not only about the Suez canal, the crushing of Syria was in the arguments too. Those middle eastern nations have never been given a chance, their best leaders murdered (start with Nasser for example) or otherwise dealt with (eg Mossadegh of Iran) - whatever the economic arguments (oil, canal, whatever) the greatest problem for any budding sovereign nation state in the region is that if they become strong and prosperous they become a potential threat to Israel, so they are nipped in the bud - it has to be said.
Rossian,
Your Iranian friend may well be right.
Iran has a long and illustrious history behind it, Saudi Arabia has none.
Think back to how nearly Xerxes came to defeating Greece and what then would have happened to European history? After that came a succession of empires - all great and cultured - Seleucid, Parthian and Sassanian, until the Arabs came.
Iran has good reason to be proud of its illustrious past.
Your Iranian friend may well be right.
Iran has a long and illustrious history behind it, Saudi Arabia has none.
Think back to how nearly Xerxes came to defeating Greece and what then would have happened to European history? After that came a succession of empires - all great and cultured - Seleucid, Parthian and Sassanian, until the Arabs came.
Iran has good reason to be proud of its illustrious past.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
.....I had an interesting four hour chat with an Iranian business man after a fortunate upgrade for me. He reckoned that there was an "arc of competence" of Iran, northern Iraq, Jordan, Syria and over into north Africa. where they would always thrive. Mainly because they were educated, intelligent and entrepreneurial. The others, Kuwaitis UAE and Saudi, he reckoned would revert to the stone age without oil in pretty short order.
The 'Shia Crescent' and Middle East Geopolitics - Foreign Policy Blogs
Nope nothing political there.... apart from the entire Shia/Sunni dispute and the "Shia Crescent" as the probable cause of a major, if not nuclear, war in the region....
The 'Shia Crescent' and Middle East Geopolitics - Foreign Policy Blogs
The 'Shia Crescent' and Middle East Geopolitics - Foreign Policy Blogs
So GCC funded ISIS and allow them carte blanche to slaughter everybody but because they are fought back against it is Iran causing the problems.
Lets see which countrys could Christians and Jews practice their faith without worry for decades...................... was it those loveable huggable peace loving Sunni countrys, or was it in countrys like Iran, Iraq, Syria.
Funny how Sunni states have been able to buy Western Governments to do their bidding, once bought they stay bought via billion dollar arms deals.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,091
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Walter - Nasser was himself a murderer, responsible for thousands of deaths and totally under the influence of Moscow, it was Nasser who fed arms to the rebels in Aden,the Protectorate, to be used against the British troops there. For me the best leader Egypt has had was Anwar Sadat.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Age: 70
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts