Vampire rips up runway...
Not such a good view out of the cockpit as the nose was higher. A single fuel gauge instead of the collection behind the control stick and a worse rate of roll because the wings were wider and restricted ailerons.
When we had a wet start they would pull the aircraft forward and throw a big asbestos blanket over the elevator assembly so as to protect the tailplane from the inevitable conflagration.
When we had a wet start they would pull the aircraft forward and throw a big asbestos blanket over the elevator assembly so as to protect the tailplane from the inevitable conflagration.
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Is it me, or was the pilot a bit nifty with the "Gear UP"?
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We used the asbestos blanket as SOP for all starting of transiting Vampires & Venoms at Istres/Orange c.1957/8
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'MPN11' getting your gear up smartly and staying low was SOP for VAMPs with the Martin-Baker Mk3 ejection seat which had a minimum height of 200 feet and airspeed of 120 knots for the use of. The attached EFATO graphic is from the RAAF Vampire Mk.35A Flight Manual. I'll attach a video of an RAAF MACCHI MB326H taking off 'uphill' on Runway 03 at NAS Nowra showing such a take off (albeit the aircraft has a MB Mk.4 seat).
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 1st May 2017 at 22:28.
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IF the Vampire was pointing more or less into the wind for engine start on the line then a wet start was uncommon for the RAN / RAAF dual seat Vamps. There is at least one video of a wettie at Temora online - I'll go look.... The first video is just an ordinary Goblin engine start with the CLACKERs working overtime & anotherie. The third video start up goes for extra time hence extra flames for the use of various.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 1st May 2017 at 22:19. Reason: +vids
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'academic' until the turnback diagram needed. People talk about NavAv arrests & cats as having the "most fun with yur pants on". For a middie doing low Vampy takeoffs was the equivalent until one got to do the adult stuff.
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EFATO turn back landing is much easier with 'cross runways'. Vampire low take offs for zoom into such a landing was practised a lot, even to a touch and go. Macchis continued the tradition with successful 1982 NAS Nowra turn back to a hot brake full stop after an 'eagle' (VC-724 line book entry says 'sea eagle' but likely it was a "wedgie" wedge tail eagle however that is just my guess, I do not have a lot of details) stopped the engine. Macchi was loaded with a passenger plus practice bombs and a minigun pod at the time.
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The Vampire 'sample turnback technique' (right hand side) of graphic above repeated for comprehension - now both.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 2nd May 2017 at 00:54. Reason: +grfx
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Variations of Vampire Cockpit Dials
Did I mention the problem of jumping from a Vamp into a Sea Venom or vice versa? Joy upon Joy: the high pressure fuel cock in the Vampire was almost in the same place as the speedbrake lever in the Sea Venom. Handily the RAAF had us trained to PUNCH the speedbrakes out in the Vampire and as long as we did that we were not likely to CLOSE the high pressure fuel cock (as some hapless did - usually at top of instrument descent so time for a relight) instead of speedbrakes out. [I recall - after a long period flying the Sea Venom - being in the break in the circuit with my left hand on the HP cock in the Vampire - UhOH - and nothing bad happened subsequently
]
All the RAF Vampire T11 levers were mounted on a pedestal by the pilot that was mostly hidden by the bang seat. It was definitely throttle and HP/LP cock side by side with the airbrake further back. The flap and undercarriage levers were down the back out of sight but easily(?) differentiated by one having a slab type handle and the other a wheel.
The was a weight on wheels interlock that would push and interference bar across the undercarriage lever when the aircraft was on the ground. This would prevent me retracting the undercarriage instead of the flaps when I turned off the runway after landing.
The was a weight on wheels interlock that would push and interference bar across the undercarriage lever when the aircraft was on the ground. This would prevent me retracting the undercarriage instead of the flaps when I turned off the runway after landing.
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For illustration purposes the RAN FAA & RAAF Dual Seat Vampires had the same throttle quadrant as seen (but not painted in this fashion). The speed brake lever was painted red as I recall and one bashed it down with the left fist closed to actuate it and raised it as required. We can see the HP fuel cock painted a dull red and it is closed. On the Sea Venom the speedbrake lever was in the same position in regards to throttle quadrant but also shaped slightly differently. Sea Venom Graphic Illustration follows then a photo.
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Very comprehensive ... thanks, SpazSinbad
Spazsinbad,
excellent thanks. When I worked on Javelins I seem to recall that one of my fellow groundcrew who had worked on Venoms said they used to put an asbestos blanket over the tailplane for startups.
When on Hercules I flew with an ex Venom driver. His take on the different marks was that one went in vertically and the other in a spiral dive !
excellent thanks. When I worked on Javelins I seem to recall that one of my fellow groundcrew who had worked on Venoms said they used to put an asbestos blanket over the tailplane for startups.
When on Hercules I flew with an ex Venom driver. His take on the different marks was that one went in vertically and the other in a spiral dive !
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The Vampires I knew had a few tricks to catch one out, such as the precession of the artificial horizon during take off (acceleration). This caught out one RAN FAA Midshipman (under training at Pearce in 1966) killed during his first night solo takeoff in a Mk35 Vamp. When I started there in mid 1968 my instructor showed me the scar on the hillside as I followed (incorrectly) the AH without allowing for the precession, during daytime - under instruction specifically to see what would happen. Point taken.
With more than one hundred cartridge starts in the Sea Venom I do not recall any dud wet starts however from a distance I recall seeing a wet start when the wind was up the aft end. Usually the Nowra Vamps & Venoms were lined up facing west with usually westerly winds. Only several days a year would the wind from the east reach Nowra to upset any starts. Had one inoperative cartridge with 'would you believe' no back up cartridge (usually installed for the use of) luckily at Nowra and not somewhere in RAAFland. Venoms would often sojourn to Laverton or even Avalon for Fleet Support work.
The view over the Venom nose was awful in the circuit but one adjusted as explained in the other thread - do a tight base turn & short final.
PhotoBucket is just crap at moment so I'll attach a few pics here....
With more than one hundred cartridge starts in the Sea Venom I do not recall any dud wet starts however from a distance I recall seeing a wet start when the wind was up the aft end. Usually the Nowra Vamps & Venoms were lined up facing west with usually westerly winds. Only several days a year would the wind from the east reach Nowra to upset any starts. Had one inoperative cartridge with 'would you believe' no back up cartridge (usually installed for the use of) luckily at Nowra and not somewhere in RAAFland. Venoms would often sojourn to Laverton or even Avalon for Fleet Support work.
The view over the Venom nose was awful in the circuit but one adjusted as explained in the other thread - do a tight base turn & short final.
PhotoBucket is just crap at moment so I'll attach a few pics here....
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 2nd May 2017 at 10:50. Reason: add text