School of Air Operations Control

[[email protected]]

On the subject of QFE, it's not the air traffickers that want to retain it, rather the 2 winged master race in 22 Gp.

Hmm perhaps because it is aircrew who rely on it when working hard in the cockpit as opposed to ATC sunning themselves on their a*ses in the tower

[Herod]

The change from QFE to QNH in my airline was driven by the change from turboprops to jets. Most departures and missed approaches are QNH based, and with the climb performance of a jet, there isn't time to faff about changing altimeter settings. (stands by to be flamed by the FJ community, who are of course superior beings)

[MPN11]

Airfield QNH (measured) or Regional QNH (predicted)?

As a former ATCO I couldn't care less which pressure setting is used. We are but humble servants of the wing'ed Lords of the Air.

[vascodegama]

QFE or QNH

Basil

By FJ crews do you include those that manage perfectly well on QNH now e.g. the USAF?

[Basil]

Originally Posted by vascodegama

Basil

By FJ crews do you include those that manage perfectly well on QNH now e.g. the USAF?

Nope, I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
I refer you to the comment by [email protected] with which I agree; although I wouldn't, perhaps, have couched it in those terms

I had a short ground tour in ATC which, I may say, was a piece of doddle for a pilot. We were there to serve the aircraft, not the other way around.

An airline for which I flew most of my flying career had a FEEPS system.
The acronym stood for Flight Engineer Entry Pilots System (Selection ?) to kindly retrain redundant FEs as pilots.
One or two FEs had the magnanimity to admit that they had never realised how mentally loaded up pilots were.
I also had the advantage of flying as a Systems Panel Operator (as well as pilot) on the TriStar. Apart from being relatively easy, it was astonishing how one could sit and watch minor errors by the pilots and be tempted to think one would never have been so remiss . . . .

[Basil]

Originally Posted by Herod

The change from QFE to QNH in my airline was driven by the change from turboprops to jets. Most departures and missed approaches are QNH based, and with the climb performance of a jet, there isn't time to faff about changing altimeter settings. (stands by to be flamed by the FJ community, who are of course superior beings)

They still get loaded up but, of course, would NEVER admit it - oh, the shame.
ATC is there to serve the aircraft and, IMO, if the SS FJ pilot wants QFE then that's what they get.
You see, I don't have any difficulty admitting that I wasn't good enough for FJ; I was bl00dy thankful to make it as a truckie. I have a colleague who says that the QFI who chopped him on Gnats probably saved his life - how magnanimous!

[Herod]

I was bl00dy thankful to make it as a truckie. I have a colleague who says that the QFI who chopped him on Gnats probably saved his life.

Likewise. My JP instructor said "You're a second behind the JP (probably generous), that would be dangerous on the Gnat, and fatal on the Lightning" Good call.

[ORAC]

How unusual - a thread about controllers morphs into yet another chat by pilots about themselves.

How do you know when there's a pilot in the bar?...............

[Herod]

How do you know when there's a pilot in the bar?

The engines have shut down, but you can still hear the whining.

[Captain Dart]

...and when there are two, the first to draw breath is the listener.

[Torchy]

Interesting stuff.......in my 37 years as an RAF controller, I never met a failed FC who had retrained as an ATCO.

[ORAC]

I have no idea if any subsequently passed the ATC course. But would any have ever admitted it?

[Cows getting bigger]

Interesting stuff.......in my 37 years as an RAF controller, I never met a failed FC who had retrained as an ATCO.

Didn't one or two go the other way in the early noughties though?

[Basil]

I was given a short ground tour in FC but a visit to a long suffering Air Secretary's Branch (ISTR) Wingco managed to get it changed to ATC.
"Oh, yes, you'll get a command on Hercs after this." Yesssss, I think FO on BEA Viscounts sounds a better proposition . . .

[KPax]

Spent a long time as a Controller in the RAF, had the banter, heard the moans, dodgy Talkdown, crosswinds, issues with aircraft very rarely the Pilots fault, bottom line if Pilots are the top of the tree, why is the CDS a Nav?

[ORAC]

Those that can, do; those that can't, fly desks? And there's more money after the days of youth flying airliners than desk?

[Basil]

Originally Posted by Captain Dart

...and when there are two, the first to draw breath is the listener.

Breakfast following an RAF reunion; ex nav colleague said "I was the third last to leave; **** was doing the talking and #### was doing the drinking!" (Both pilots and clearly well suited to each other )

[KPax]

50-100k for sitting at a desk at Heathrow etc, I will take that.

[Herod]

Anyone who thinks being a controller at Heathrow is easy clearly has never flown into there as operating crew. I have, many times, and I take my hat off to them.

[Basil]

Originally Posted by Herod

Anyone who thinks being a controller at Heathrow is easy clearly has never flown into there as operating crew. I have, many times, and I take my hat off to them.

Hear hear! Had what appeared to be an engine fire one night on the way in there. (Actually one bit of the engine grinding away another)
Bas: "Mayday etc."
ATC immediately: "Basair *** heading 240 cleared ILS 27L, break break, LU123 go around climb . . . ."
Bas: Thinks 'How did he know in advance I was going to say that?'

Much more recently walking around Swanwick and was surprised by how dramatically the workload increased as a line of bad weather swept across.