FLYING THE AWACS - SKY POINTERS
FLYING THE AWACS - SKY POINTERS
At the risk of ' telling grannies to suck eggs ' and before alzheimer's finally kicks in may I pass on some 'top tips ' which helped me fly the AWACs - which in my opinion could be a right bitch !
1. SKY POINTERS - can't remember anyone preferring the American style Sky Pointer over our the RAF intuitive ground pointer. Could be quite disorienting if recovering from a UP at night?
TT. Imagine you are wearing an old style Prussian Helmet - with a pointy top!
Turning right point goes right - intuitive to straighten up ?
2. APPROACH- plan ahead and fly by pre-planned 'rote '. Last minute seat of the pants adjustments usually worked out badly - even when experienced/ overconfident!
TRIM is vital - time the EXACT trim required for each flap setting and apply early -Check in trim with loose grip. 50 ft - 1 sec of back trim 20 ft start round out?
3. Cross wind landings - difficult particularly with low slung CFM 56 engines.
TT - GENTLY push off the drift - don't kick it off - overemphasise the into wind aileron.Practise in the sim.
4.AAR - difficult at first particularly for ex fast jet jocks.
TT Never rush it !
TRIM TRIM TRIM - including ailerons.
Line up the throttles very carefully - with cable stretch could be well out
of line.
Position seat carefully - EXACTLY the same each time.
MOMENTUM is huge - don't forget to take off half the original input -
BEFORE it is too late!
Relax and keep breathing.
5. The FLIGHT SIMULATOR- even the newer model can be very slippery and make a fool out of even the best - however use it at every opportunity to practice the basics - even displays and AAR. I can't remember anyone who flew the sim well who wasn't even better on the aircraft!
Good luck - and apologies to any current QFIs who might take offence?
1. SKY POINTERS - can't remember anyone preferring the American style Sky Pointer over our the RAF intuitive ground pointer. Could be quite disorienting if recovering from a UP at night?
TT. Imagine you are wearing an old style Prussian Helmet - with a pointy top!
Turning right point goes right - intuitive to straighten up ?
2. APPROACH- plan ahead and fly by pre-planned 'rote '. Last minute seat of the pants adjustments usually worked out badly - even when experienced/ overconfident!
TRIM is vital - time the EXACT trim required for each flap setting and apply early -Check in trim with loose grip. 50 ft - 1 sec of back trim 20 ft start round out?
3. Cross wind landings - difficult particularly with low slung CFM 56 engines.
TT - GENTLY push off the drift - don't kick it off - overemphasise the into wind aileron.Practise in the sim.
4.AAR - difficult at first particularly for ex fast jet jocks.
TT Never rush it !
TRIM TRIM TRIM - including ailerons.
Line up the throttles very carefully - with cable stretch could be well out
of line.
Position seat carefully - EXACTLY the same each time.
MOMENTUM is huge - don't forget to take off half the original input -
BEFORE it is too late!
Relax and keep breathing.
5. The FLIGHT SIMULATOR- even the newer model can be very slippery and make a fool out of even the best - however use it at every opportunity to practice the basics - even displays and AAR. I can't remember anyone who flew the sim well who wasn't even better on the aircraft!
Good luck - and apologies to any current QFIs who might take offence?
I'd hope there is a large volume of useful tips shared among the many 'dish drivers/ saucer steerers' of the world's Air Forces?
Would certainly expect the STT (Sqn training teams) to be collating FS and general 'user-guides' from all over (good excuse for a jolly to warmer parts...
)
Would certainly expect the STT (Sqn training teams) to be collating FS and general 'user-guides' from all over (good excuse for a jolly to warmer parts...
)
Why stick with the aircraft document set (15A2) and SOPs when you can fly using internet gained top tips and French/Saudi/NATO/US gossip?
suspect you have to find a free Dii terminal to read the 'doc set' and 'SOPs' these days? While the OCU was prepping for the MRA4, they had to fight to get printed docs (sadly they lasted longer than the airframes..). I'm guessing that fight would be near impossible today?
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Great thread, PPRuNe at its best. Why stick with the aircraft document set (15A2) and SOPs when you can fly using internet gained top tips and French/Saudi/NATO/US gossip?
Stilton
Re dome drag - at GK we sometimes trained on the ex Sabina Airline B 707
- the only difference that I can remember was that the basic 707 was more 'slippery' and needed less power ( about 3% ?) - the rotodome did add drag but not as much as its size ( 6 ft tall ) and weight would suggest as the dome created its own lift - amazing design!
Figureof8
Re aileron trim - you are probably right?? - but I remember on 1 rare occasion the only way to fly straight behind the tanker was to apply some aileron trim!
Perhaps we were doing it wrong?
Vigilant Pilot I can't remember any of these 'top tips ' in any of the tech manuals - which I found very sleep inducing!
Re dome drag - at GK we sometimes trained on the ex Sabina Airline B 707
- the only difference that I can remember was that the basic 707 was more 'slippery' and needed less power ( about 3% ?) - the rotodome did add drag but not as much as its size ( 6 ft tall ) and weight would suggest as the dome created its own lift - amazing design!
Figureof8
Re aileron trim - you are probably right?? - but I remember on 1 rare occasion the only way to fly straight behind the tanker was to apply some aileron trim!
Perhaps we were doing it wrong?
Vigilant Pilot I can't remember any of these 'top tips ' in any of the tech manuals - which I found very sleep inducing!
I spent my last 5 years as a civvie at Waddo as Trials Scientific Officer with the E3. Some of our 10 hour sorties comprised nothing but 15nm circles.
I can recall the joy of the Nav when I told him that the next sortie would involve continuous changes of heading ( +10deg, -20deg, + 30deg, -40 deg etc. ) He was fair chuffed to find that he had something technical to do!!
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Some of our 10 hour sorties comprised nothing but 15nm circles.
To be fair - most of my 7,000 hrs in the aircraft was also spent flying in 15nm circles.....
Watching the E-3D jousting the VC10K centreline hose (on the CCTV) looked weird enough, but the AEW3 Nimrod looked ridiculous. It had to do a climbing approach and on the CCTV when in contact it looked like a platypus.
Probably flew like one too!
Probably flew like one too!
Dutch Roll ?
What did/do they teach or preach about dutch roll and yaw damper (or whatever it’s called now) including related failures, for the 707 AWACs series ?
Question applies equally to in-flight demonstration or training, simulator, classroom, and whatever manuals or scuttlebutt that might be available.
Same question also asked for RAF Rivet Joint.
LFH
What did/do they teach or preach about dutch roll and yaw damper (or whatever it’s called now) including related failures, for the 707 AWACs series ?
Question applies equally to in-flight demonstration or training, simulator, classroom, and whatever manuals or scuttlebutt that might be available.
Same question also asked for RAF Rivet Joint.
LFH
RAF Rivet Joint.
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Watching the E-3D jousting the VC10K centreline hose (on the CCTV) looked weird enough, but the AEW3 Nimrod looked ridiculous. It had to do a climbing approach and on the CCTV when in contact it looked like a platypus.
Probably flew like one too!
Probably flew like one too!
Actually, consensus was that the AEW3 flew better than the MR2 - the nose and tail additions gave better yaw characteristics and Dutch roll was significantly reduced. Just a shame that the Mission System Avionics were pants.
As for Sentry - the flight deck crews said that the problem during tanking was when you got a little high behind the tanker and you placed the rotodome into the tanker's turbulence.