HMS Nottingham strikes rocks
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The Times today suggests that Nottingham is a write-off. Just another little experience for the world's Most Experienced Navy!
"Once more onto the beach, dear friends, once more!"
"Once more onto the beach, dear friends, once more!"
In fairness to the crew, only a small number of people are responsible for going aground. The inquiry and courts martial will find out exactly what did happen.
But.....the ENTIRE ship's company were involved in the damge control.
But.....the ENTIRE ship's company were involved in the damge control.
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A small number of people.......
Jimlad, I'm sure you'll correct me if i'm wrong here.
I make it, the Officer of the watch, the navigation officer, the members of their division that shared the watch, the lookouts on watch,the Radar watch, the man in charge and the other members of the ships company that shared the responsibility of making sure one of her Majestys ships didn't hit a rock in the middle of nowhere. So, hardly a small number of people. But, a VERY small number of people, will carry the can for this incident.
Ok, I'm going to say it, for the members of the board that can't be arsed, or who are counting to 10, before they type, because they can't trust themselves not to type a long series of expletives.
I do not require, nor do I believe I am learning anything, regarding naval doctrine, policy or operations, from someone who lasted all of 2 weeks in the Navy, and wasn't fit to command an iron to travel in a straight line, never mind a vital component of a Warships' wellbeing. I enjoy this forum, because, even though i am not a professional Military aviator, I learn. I learn things or opinions on doctrine and operations that may at some point, be relevant to something I am trying to teach, or a situation I find myself in
Furthermore, I don't really wish to have my precious bloody bandwidth, clogged up by a self-opinionated "experten" on Naval affairs.
I am also sick and bloody tired, of your attempts to re-ignite the SHAR thread, to be "One of the boys" i guess, but i may be wrong and unfair, for which i apologise in advance. We know whats going on, and for your enlightenment, in your very blinkered view of military affairs, some of us, are looking at this, and wondering what the hell HMG are going to chop next. Today SHAR, tomorrow Warriors, Track miles, the odd battalion here and there, a few less Tornados etc etc.
I think it's painfully obvious to me at least, that you have as much intention of pursuing a career in the Navy, as I have of auditioning for Popstars. I think, you are unfortunately, a really good example of a "WIWI" or "When I Woz In" individual, hence "He smells of *wiwi* " which is what people who have served, call pub hangers on , or reunion bull5hit artists. Or at least, that's what we do in my circle.
Please no-one re-ignite the thread on service slang You tend to see wiwi's in the pubs near any forces establishment, the guys who wear flying suits with all the badges at airshows, or CS95 trousers ,Green T-shirts and Pro-Boots at Army displays.
I can see you in years to come, at Naval reunions and functions, boring the tits off young folk, in your Blazer, naval tie and badge telling stirring stories of life on the ocean wave, but just omitting enough detail to keep people guessing. You should ******* well be ashamed of yourself. You came back to this forum, and asked for help. You promptly ignored all the advice and help offered.
You then go on to post that re-entry to the navy appears to be a drama, in spite of announcing, that the navy have told you, to leave it for a bit, then re-apply, which is the standard form. It only becomes a problem, if you were
A. Kicked out, and told never to darken the portals again, which is not what you have said, or
B. Resigned or jacked it in yourself, in which case, any of the services would need a lot of convincing, if you were to re-apply and of course, it would be a drama to re-enter.
I have said as much as I'm going to say.You can rest assured, that i will refrain from ever commenting on one of your posts again.
I fear you have confused enthusiasm with being a pain in the butt, certainly as far as I am concerned, but that is my opinion. Just because you want desperately to show,that you are on the same side, does not mean I have to like you, or think you spout anything but uninformed, immature oxygen thieving.
If anyone above my payscale wishes to kick me to death over what i have written,or defend you and your actions, they are free to do so, it is a public forum, and that is their right.
Tony
Jimlad, I'm sure you'll correct me if i'm wrong here.
I make it, the Officer of the watch, the navigation officer, the members of their division that shared the watch, the lookouts on watch,the Radar watch, the man in charge and the other members of the ships company that shared the responsibility of making sure one of her Majestys ships didn't hit a rock in the middle of nowhere. So, hardly a small number of people. But, a VERY small number of people, will carry the can for this incident.
Ok, I'm going to say it, for the members of the board that can't be arsed, or who are counting to 10, before they type, because they can't trust themselves not to type a long series of expletives.
I do not require, nor do I believe I am learning anything, regarding naval doctrine, policy or operations, from someone who lasted all of 2 weeks in the Navy, and wasn't fit to command an iron to travel in a straight line, never mind a vital component of a Warships' wellbeing. I enjoy this forum, because, even though i am not a professional Military aviator, I learn. I learn things or opinions on doctrine and operations that may at some point, be relevant to something I am trying to teach, or a situation I find myself in
Furthermore, I don't really wish to have my precious bloody bandwidth, clogged up by a self-opinionated "experten" on Naval affairs.
I am also sick and bloody tired, of your attempts to re-ignite the SHAR thread, to be "One of the boys" i guess, but i may be wrong and unfair, for which i apologise in advance. We know whats going on, and for your enlightenment, in your very blinkered view of military affairs, some of us, are looking at this, and wondering what the hell HMG are going to chop next. Today SHAR, tomorrow Warriors, Track miles, the odd battalion here and there, a few less Tornados etc etc.
I think it's painfully obvious to me at least, that you have as much intention of pursuing a career in the Navy, as I have of auditioning for Popstars. I think, you are unfortunately, a really good example of a "WIWI" or "When I Woz In" individual, hence "He smells of *wiwi* " which is what people who have served, call pub hangers on , or reunion bull5hit artists. Or at least, that's what we do in my circle.
Please no-one re-ignite the thread on service slang
You tend to see wiwi's in the pubs near any forces establishment, the guys who wear flying suits with all the badges at airshows, or CS95 trousers ,Green T-shirts and Pro-Boots at Army displays.I can see you in years to come, at Naval reunions and functions, boring the tits off young folk, in your Blazer, naval tie and badge telling stirring stories of life on the ocean wave, but just omitting enough detail to keep people guessing. You should ******* well be ashamed of yourself. You came back to this forum, and asked for help. You promptly ignored all the advice and help offered.
You then go on to post that re-entry to the navy appears to be a drama, in spite of announcing, that the navy have told you, to leave it for a bit, then re-apply, which is the standard form. It only becomes a problem, if you were
A. Kicked out, and told never to darken the portals again, which is not what you have said, or
B. Resigned or jacked it in yourself, in which case, any of the services would need a lot of convincing, if you were to re-apply and of course, it would be a drama to re-enter.
I have said as much as I'm going to say.You can rest assured, that i will refrain from ever commenting on one of your posts again.
I fear you have confused enthusiasm with being a pain in the butt, certainly as far as I am concerned, but that is my opinion. Just because you want desperately to show,that you are on the same side, does not mean I have to like you, or think you spout anything but uninformed, immature oxygen thieving.
If anyone above my payscale wishes to kick me to death over what i have written,or defend you and your actions, they are free to do so, it is a public forum, and that is their right.
Tony
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Courts Martial
Some contributors seem to have the idea that Courts Martial are the ultimate retribution. For flying offences in the RAF and for nav cocck-ops in the RN, not necessarily so!. The Atcherly twins suffered several such glitches in their careers and still made Air Marshal. There is the (possibly apocryphal) story of the RN Lt Cdr who had been passed over for promotion to Cdr and bounced his frigate off a rock. The Court relieved him of a year's seniority, which put him back in the zone and he got promoted.
Administrative action, which never features in the papers, can be far more lethal to one's career. Legend has it that at Waddo in the 60's a Vulcan flew into a "stuffed cloud". Of course, the whole crew died (RIP). The C-in-C phoned the Staish. The Squadron Commander, who was standing in for him, replied "The Station Commander is on leave, sir".
"What's he doing on leave at a time like this?" spake the CINC.
It soon emerged that the Captain and the nav team were not a "properly constituted crew" according to the current GASOs - essential for low level ops. The Flight Commander (acting boss) who authorised the trip was summoned and presented with an Adverse Report (under the appropriate QR) on which he was required to comment within the hour. He had the balls to say he would take 24 hours to consider his position. Nevertheless he was off the station before the Board even assembled, and his career sank into obscurity.
Administrative action, which never features in the papers, can be far more lethal to one's career. Legend has it that at Waddo in the 60's a Vulcan flew into a "stuffed cloud". Of course, the whole crew died (RIP). The C-in-C phoned the Staish. The Squadron Commander, who was standing in for him, replied "The Station Commander is on leave, sir".
"What's he doing on leave at a time like this?" spake the CINC.
It soon emerged that the Captain and the nav team were not a "properly constituted crew" according to the current GASOs - essential for low level ops. The Flight Commander (acting boss) who authorised the trip was summoned and presented with an Adverse Report (under the appropriate QR) on which he was required to comment within the hour. He had the balls to say he would take 24 hours to consider his position. Nevertheless he was off the station before the Board even assembled, and his career sank into obscurity.
Since I know as much about driving boats, grey, pusser's as I do about flower arranging, I shall follow the glorious tradition of certain equally ignorant Knights of the Realm in proclaiming that this accident was totally due to Gross Negligence.............. Must have been, mustn't it - he wasn't a FJ mate.
Quote from unnamed Australian Naval Officer...
"There is only one rock between Lord Howe Island and South America, and these guys hit it"
In the words of Americas most famous parent.. Dohh
"There is only one rock between Lord Howe Island and South America, and these guys hit it"
In the words of Americas most famous parent.. Dohh
Cunning Artificer
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Visited Nottingham while she was in Brunei. Was amazed at how they keep a Lynx up to scratch in a garden shed with bicycles hanging from the ceiling. They keep a fearsome arsenal of SAMs below decks too.
There being a few questions as to this being a suitable subject for PPRuNe, I'd like to point out that the main purpose of this vessel is to shoot down aeroplanes. Flown by professional pilots, presumably the military version. Military aircrew forum, please pay attention - ships like these may be hazardous to your health.
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
There being a few questions as to this being a suitable subject for PPRuNe, I'd like to point out that the main purpose of this vessel is to shoot down aeroplanes. Flown by professional pilots, presumably the military version. Military aircrew forum, please pay attention - ships like these may be hazardous to your health.
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
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Thought I'd start with.... "If Regt.Sigs.Off. is the only way to a Captaincy, you can shove it"
..followed by a sorrowful rendition of "SDR Blues, what are u gonna take away this time
"
If WEBF gives it his all, I'll show my arsseto the gate guard at Devonport.
Now there's an incentive
PS, I'm about to get medieval about SDR and the impending stitchup on the other means
..followed by a sorrowful rendition of "SDR Blues, what are u gonna take away this time
"If WEBF gives it his all, I'll show my arsseto the gate guard at Devonport.
Now there's an incentive
PS, I'm about to get medieval about SDR and the impending stitchup on the other means
Lupus Domesticus
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Thought y'all might appreciate this, seeing as how (Howe?) the chopper gets a mention.
N A T I O N A L N E W S S T O R Y
'She should be at the bottom of the sea' - NZ sailor
13 July 2002
A New Zealand navy sailor helping salvage a crippled British warship at Lord Howe Island says the ship was saved only by superb work by its crew.
Chief Petty Officer Dean Hannah, who is a crew member on Anzac frigate HMNZS Te Mana, said the damage to the guided missile destroyer HMS Nottingham, was extensive.
"By rights she should be at the bottom of the sea. Her crew did an amazing job to keep her afloat," he said in an e-mail to his family in Torbay on Auckland's North Shore.
The 3500-tonne frigate hit rocks at Lord Howe Island about 10pm last Sunday and immediately began sinking bow first.
Hundreds of tonnes of water poured in through several holes in the hull and flooded several compartments, including the forward engine room, the Sea Dart missile magazine and several sleeping areas.
Some ratings, who were asleep or resting when the ship hit, fled from their sleeping quarters as the water poured in.
The ship put out a distress call and within hours the Australian air force flew heavy duty pumps to Lord Howe Island to control the flooding.
The New Zealand navy ships Te Mana and the tanker HMNZS Endeavour were also deployed to Lord Howe Island with extra supplies of shoring timber and salvage equipment.
Some of the now-dry forward compartments are criss-crossed with heavy timber beams which hold patches in place on the hull.
Some of the larger holes may not be able to be repaired, even on a temporary basis, until the ship reaches a dry dock.
The Royal Navy said the ship would probably be towed stern first to a port for repairs, possibly Sydney, about 300 nautical miles away.
The Royal Navy is also looking for barges to unload the ship's Sea Dart missiles, some of which have been badly damaged by sea water.
The ship was fully munitioned and hundreds of rounds of 4.5-inch ammunition for the ship's main gun, torpedoes and thousands of rounds of smaller ammunition for the ship's close in defensive guns.
CPO Hannah, said three New Zealand navy teams of 10 sailors were giving some respite to the crew of the badly damaged warship as they worked to restore systems and keep the water at bay.
He said it was "quite disgraceful" for British papers to have called the crew a bunch of incompetents.
"Their damage control and quick response to the massive flooding was superb."
He said the reinforced bow section with all the heavy shoring timber "was like a little wooden village."
"It's an interesting feeling to experience, knowing that the compartment below and the section in front of you are totally open to the sea."
"It's a great feeling to be putting skills I have learnt to work for real and to know that our team has done a good job."
He said Te Mana may escort the crippled ship when it was towed to a port for repairs.
"In a way, after helping them out, I sort of feel we are obliged to do. Someone will have to be there to effect a rescue, if needed."
Salvage experts believe it will be another seven to 10 days before the ship is ready for a five or six day tow to the Australian mainland.
Te Mana had supplied as much electrical equipment as it could spare, CPO Hannah said.
A Royal Navy board of inquiry has convened to investigate the grounding, which is believed to have happened when a relatively junior officer was at the helm as the ship's helicopter landed after taking a sick seaman ashore.
The ship's skipper, Commander Richard Farrington, was on the helicopter and was believed to have been making his way to the bridge when the ship hit the rocks.
The Royal Navy said it was too soon to say if Cdr Farrington or any other officers would be court-martialled.
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N A T I O N A L N E W S S T O R Y
'She should be at the bottom of the sea' - NZ sailor
13 July 2002
A New Zealand navy sailor helping salvage a crippled British warship at Lord Howe Island says the ship was saved only by superb work by its crew.
Chief Petty Officer Dean Hannah, who is a crew member on Anzac frigate HMNZS Te Mana, said the damage to the guided missile destroyer HMS Nottingham, was extensive.
"By rights she should be at the bottom of the sea. Her crew did an amazing job to keep her afloat," he said in an e-mail to his family in Torbay on Auckland's North Shore.
The 3500-tonne frigate hit rocks at Lord Howe Island about 10pm last Sunday and immediately began sinking bow first.
Hundreds of tonnes of water poured in through several holes in the hull and flooded several compartments, including the forward engine room, the Sea Dart missile magazine and several sleeping areas.
Some ratings, who were asleep or resting when the ship hit, fled from their sleeping quarters as the water poured in.
The ship put out a distress call and within hours the Australian air force flew heavy duty pumps to Lord Howe Island to control the flooding.
The New Zealand navy ships Te Mana and the tanker HMNZS Endeavour were also deployed to Lord Howe Island with extra supplies of shoring timber and salvage equipment.
Some of the now-dry forward compartments are criss-crossed with heavy timber beams which hold patches in place on the hull.
Some of the larger holes may not be able to be repaired, even on a temporary basis, until the ship reaches a dry dock.
The Royal Navy said the ship would probably be towed stern first to a port for repairs, possibly Sydney, about 300 nautical miles away.
The Royal Navy is also looking for barges to unload the ship's Sea Dart missiles, some of which have been badly damaged by sea water.
The ship was fully munitioned and hundreds of rounds of 4.5-inch ammunition for the ship's main gun, torpedoes and thousands of rounds of smaller ammunition for the ship's close in defensive guns.
CPO Hannah, said three New Zealand navy teams of 10 sailors were giving some respite to the crew of the badly damaged warship as they worked to restore systems and keep the water at bay.
He said it was "quite disgraceful" for British papers to have called the crew a bunch of incompetents.
"Their damage control and quick response to the massive flooding was superb."
He said the reinforced bow section with all the heavy shoring timber "was like a little wooden village."
"It's an interesting feeling to experience, knowing that the compartment below and the section in front of you are totally open to the sea."
"It's a great feeling to be putting skills I have learnt to work for real and to know that our team has done a good job."
He said Te Mana may escort the crippled ship when it was towed to a port for repairs.
"In a way, after helping them out, I sort of feel we are obliged to do. Someone will have to be there to effect a rescue, if needed."
Salvage experts believe it will be another seven to 10 days before the ship is ready for a five or six day tow to the Australian mainland.
Te Mana had supplied as much electrical equipment as it could spare, CPO Hannah said.
A Royal Navy board of inquiry has convened to investigate the grounding, which is believed to have happened when a relatively junior officer was at the helm as the ship's helicopter landed after taking a sick seaman ashore.
The ship's skipper, Commander Richard Farrington, was on the helicopter and was believed to have been making his way to the bridge when the ship hit the rocks.
The Royal Navy said it was too soon to say if Cdr Farrington or any other officers would be court-martialled.
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Kiwi PPRuNer
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HMNZS TE MANA arrived back in auckland on thursday, with the lynx on the helideck, and a small party of crew, any ideas on how shes gonna get home?
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"The ships LYNX helicopter will be flown to the New Zealand frigate TE MANA close by and,once back in New Zealand, be collected by a heavy lift aircraft for the long return flight to the UK."
Those guys are getting some good business out of MoD!!
Those guys are getting some good business out of MoD!!
Points:
1. Those of you who are unaquainted with civvie strasse (but may wish to be someday) may be interested to know that there is no distinction between Teeteringhead's two definitions of pilot when it comes to jury service (and thus avoiding it).
2. Like most others I am full of admiration for the straight forward answers from the skipper. And he didn't adopt the MOD pose of arms folded over chest in auto-gabble.
3. Finally, as a professional pilot I have a worthy and much-respected opinion on everything, therefore any topic is fair game on this site...
That is all - carry on.
1. Those of you who are unaquainted with civvie strasse (but may wish to be someday) may be interested to know that there is no distinction between Teeteringhead's two definitions of pilot when it comes to jury service (and thus avoiding it).
2. Like most others I am full of admiration for the straight forward answers from the skipper. And he didn't adopt the MOD pose of arms folded over chest in auto-gabble.
3. Finally, as a professional pilot I have a worthy and much-respected opinion on everything, therefore any topic is fair game on this site...
That is all - carry on.
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Top marks to the Old Man for his forthright and honest approach. A few spin merchants could do worse than to take some leadership cues from him. Good luck to him and his Ship's Company in what lies ahead!
