WH640 Canberra crash

[Pelomino]

Today I have another question: On September 24th 1955 Canberra B.2 WH640 of 104.Sqn. crashed at RAF Gütersloh. Does anyone have the crew names that was tragically lost on this date? Thank you!

[Archimedes]

One source, here suggests that the pilot might have been/was probably Pilot Officer 'Jonah' Jones, but no other information is given.

[Pelomino]

Many many thanks, Archimedes!

[Chugalug2]

Same pilot mentioned here. You'll understand the entry a great deal better than I Pelomino,

Abstürze, Unfälle, Bruchlandungen & Bodenunfälle in Gütersloh ? Die Geschichte des Flugplatz Gütersloh

[Pelomino]

Yes, of course! After Archimedes´ reply I added the name in our crash list!

[Simplythebeast]

Pilot Officer John Allen Jones DFC 31yrs old
Flying Officer Brian Victor Wilkinson 21 yrs old
Flying Officer William Keith Graham 24yrs old.

[Simplythebeast]

Details from the book 'Category Five' by Collin Cummings.

[Arclite01]

That he was much older than his crew (10 years) suggests that he may have been a commissioned NCO Pilot................

I wonder where he won his DFC ?

Arc

[haltonbrat]

161604 John Allen Jones is listed as awarded the DFC in the supplement to the London Gazette dated 15th August 1944, serving on 49 Squadron

[Simplythebeast]

According to the book it is believed he was awarded the DFC in August 1944 while serving with 49Sqn. It is assumed that he left the RAF after the war but then re-joined possibly as an NCO before being recommissioned.
The circumstances of the accident are vague. The aircraft made a normal approach to Gutersloh but the pilot then reported that the windscreen had misted and that he was going to overshoot. The aircraft was subsequently found crashed along its original track but reason was never determined.

[Arclite01]

Those dates don't add up.

1960 - he's 31 so in 1944 he'd be 15 years old !!

Is it the same person ?? - I think he's more likely to be older than 31 in 1960 IMHO

Arc

[Old-Duffer]

The accident was 1955 and he was born on 3 March 1924

[Arclite01]

Thanks OD

That makes sense.

Arc

[longer ron]

As others have posted - J A Jones was commissioned from NCO rank but also had a spell as an RAFVRT officer...

DFC award - SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE,. 15.AUGUST, 1944
Flying Officers.
John Allen JONES (161604), R.A.F.V.R., 49 Sqn.

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 17 MAY, 1949
ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE.
TRAINING BRANCH.
Appointment to commission.
As Flying Officers:—

John Allen JONES, D.F.C. (161604). 26th Feb.
1949

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 10 AUGUST, 1954

Flight Sergeants.
8th July 1954.

1437904 John Allen- JONES, D.F.C. (161604).

[Arclite01]

That is better and worse Longer Ron

What an interesting guy

So he was DFC in 1944

Then commissioned RAF VR(T) 1949 (Air Cadets ?)

Then NCO Pilot 1954 !!!

and obviously re-commissioned as P/O in 1955.

I bet he had some interesting stories - we'll never know.

Arc

[longer ron]

Yes Arc - post war was not necessarily easy for wartime Aircrew !
I found this on the 49 sqn website...
With a typo on his service number/last 3 !

[Fonsini]

Without wanting to derail the thread wasn't there a Canberra landing crash which resulted in one of the aircrew ejecting and landing in grass sat upright and still strapped into his ejector seat - and he was relatively unscathed by the whole ordeal ?

I think the cause was the old asymmetric thrust problem when losing an engine at low speed.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Fonsini

Without wanting to derail the thread wasn't there a Canberra landing crash .....

Are you thinking of this one?

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=21111

If so it wasn't quite as you've described but having heard the story from two of those involved it is indeed a darned miracle they all survived.

[longer ron]

From UKserials

19/06/1978 WJ753 Canberra B2 100 Sqn

During an overshoot at Marham, Norfolk the pilot allowed the engine rpm to drop below the recommended rpm levels. The engines spooled up unevenly during the subsequent throttle up causing a severe asymmetric condition resulting in near vertical bank with the port wingtip striking the ground to the left of the runway. During the ensuing cartwheel, the cockpit section was removed from the fuselage, breaking between the pilot and navigator's seats. The pilot suffered serious leg injuries when his ejection seat fired sideways when on the ground. The occupant of the Rhumbold (fold down seat next to the pilot) was badly injured. Miraculously, of the two rear crew one broke an ankle and the other walked away unscathed

The ASN info is slightly incorrect - there were 4 crew on board - from memory they were returning from abroad (Cyprus or Malta ?) and had 1 crew member on the 'Rumble' seat - the aircraft was 'hot' (ie too fast) on finals and the Pilot throttled back too far - ending up low and slow,on opening the throttles he had assymetric spool up at low altitude - there is a horrific photo taken from near the threshold with the wingtip dug in and the aircraft in almost vertical bank.
I could not quickly find a viewable copy of the pic but there is a very small image on flickr.
It was a long time ago - any corrections welcome !

[Fonsini]

That was the one - I'm fairly certain they found the pilot sat upright in his seat. Truly one in a million.