Canada opts for Super Hornets
As an interested observer and two times FJ joyrider - I thought the prevailing wisdom on the F-22 was, fantastic air superiority fighter, incredibly powerful, but (stealthery aside) lacking in necessary avionics and other electronic wizardry to compete in today's fight?
In other words - a bit of a dinosaur?
Or am I wrong...
In other words - a bit of a dinosaur?
Or am I wrong...
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The one thing people seem to be focused on is does Canada buy the F35 or the F18E -hmmm, ooooh, ahhhh shiny new things!!! Canada has benefited from a significant financial return in regard to work derived by supporting the build of the F35 as have other countries. If the F35 is not the chosen platform, a lot of money is going to evaporate from the Canadian aerospace industry and the new F18 is never going to generate the same level of work for industry.
However, if Canada does indeed decide on the F35 in the end, the issue is not the cost of the aircraft, the bigger question is how are they going to maintain them. The CF18, like many other fleets in Canada is military owned and civil maintained (for the most part). The F35 is a totally new aircraft and no one seems to be saying much about how its going to be maintained or by who.
As Armstrong and Miller would no doubt say - 'Its like, what shiny new toy will we be getting insn'it, cos we need the one which has bigger bombs and guns and sh1t and goes real fast n sh1t, so we can get cool medals and stuff - insn'it'.
However, if Canada does indeed decide on the F35 in the end, the issue is not the cost of the aircraft, the bigger question is how are they going to maintain them. The CF18, like many other fleets in Canada is military owned and civil maintained (for the most part). The F35 is a totally new aircraft and no one seems to be saying much about how its going to be maintained or by who.
As Armstrong and Miller would no doubt say - 'Its like, what shiny new toy will we be getting insn'it, cos we need the one which has bigger bombs and guns and sh1t and goes real fast n sh1t, so we can get cool medals and stuff - insn'it'.
I guess my question was prompted by the fight now not so much being about the ability to turn and burn as sophistication of sensors, data fusion and weapons deployed.
Eg:
It took the Air Force more than a decade to equip the Raptor with the AIM-9X because of the F-22’s obtuse avionics architecture—which is exceptionally difficult to upgrade. Even this recent addition of the AIM-9X is a jury-rigged interim measure called Update 5, which also includes an automatic ground collision avoidance system.
While the new software upgrade allows Raptor pilots to take advantage of the performance of the new missile, the jet’s targeting display will not show the correct symbology for the AIM-9X. Instead, the weapon will have the same displays as the current AIM-9M and pilots will have to compensate for the difference.
The situation will not be rectified until a new enhanced stores management system (ESMS) is added to the frontline Block 30 and Block 35 Raptors in 2018 with the Increment 3.2B hardware upgrade. With Inc. 3.2B, the F-22 will display the proper symbology for the AIM-9X. But even then, the F-22 will not have a helmet-mounted cueing system—which was deleted during the jet’s problematic development program in the late 1990s.
Raptor pilots will be able take advantage of many of the superior capabilities of the AIM-9X even without a helmet-mounted cueing system. But to fully exploit the outer edges of the new Sidewinder’s greatly expanded weapons employment zone, F-22 pilots will eventually need one.
Once the F-35 is fully operational, with DAS etc. will it be better than even the upgraded F-22? The impression I had up until now was that nothing would be able to touch the F-35 systems wise - but may be I've drunk too much of Lockheed's kool-aid.
Eg:
It took the Air Force more than a decade to equip the Raptor with the AIM-9X because of the F-22’s obtuse avionics architecture—which is exceptionally difficult to upgrade. Even this recent addition of the AIM-9X is a jury-rigged interim measure called Update 5, which also includes an automatic ground collision avoidance system.
While the new software upgrade allows Raptor pilots to take advantage of the performance of the new missile, the jet’s targeting display will not show the correct symbology for the AIM-9X. Instead, the weapon will have the same displays as the current AIM-9M and pilots will have to compensate for the difference.
The situation will not be rectified until a new enhanced stores management system (ESMS) is added to the frontline Block 30 and Block 35 Raptors in 2018 with the Increment 3.2B hardware upgrade. With Inc. 3.2B, the F-22 will display the proper symbology for the AIM-9X. But even then, the F-22 will not have a helmet-mounted cueing system—which was deleted during the jet’s problematic development program in the late 1990s.
Raptor pilots will be able take advantage of many of the superior capabilities of the AIM-9X even without a helmet-mounted cueing system. But to fully exploit the outer edges of the new Sidewinder’s greatly expanded weapons employment zone, F-22 pilots will eventually need one.
Once the F-35 is fully operational, with DAS etc. will it be better than even the upgraded F-22? The impression I had up until now was that nothing would be able to touch the F-35 systems wise - but may be I've drunk too much of Lockheed's kool-aid.
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F35 Work share
There has been some talk of "If Canada does not buy F35s... loss of work on F35 parts".
If this is the case and the work presently being done in Canada is "repatriated" to the USA, how long will it take to set up a suitable manufacturing base? Yet another delay in the F35 project...
If this is the case and the work presently being done in Canada is "repatriated" to the USA, how long will it take to set up a suitable manufacturing base? Yet another delay in the F35 project...
Thread Starter
Canada may just keep floating the F-35 carrot and keep working on current F-35 parts projects.
The SH offers them a big window given that they are still 2-3 years away as well..
The SH offers them a big window given that they are still 2-3 years away as well..
But how would Canada resolve their F-35 AAR issue?
It seems that they were interested only in the F-35A, which isn't compatible with any of their national AAR assets...
No doubt some Lockheed snake oil vendor would tell them that removing the UARRSI from the F-35A and fitting the probe from the F-35B/C "wouldn't be a problem"... Apart from R&D and OTE costs, that is...
It seems that they were interested only in the F-35A, which isn't compatible with any of their national AAR assets...
No doubt some Lockheed snake oil vendor would tell them that removing the UARRSI from the F-35A and fitting the probe from the F-35B/C "wouldn't be a problem"... Apart from R&D and OTE costs, that is...
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The fact that it has longer range and can in any case have AAR from the present assets are of course bonuses.
Not sure what would happen to the unit cost, whichever, if more Cs were ordered...
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For 'BEagle': http://www.dodbuzz.com/2012/06/19/lo...a-on-the-f-35/
O’Bryan: “We [LM VP] anticipated a number of the operators would want probe-and-drogue refueling in the F-35A and we kept that space empty on the F-35A to accommodate probe and drogue refueling. We‘ve done a number of studies – funded studies, not projects – funded studies to evaluate that, paid for by the countries who want that to happen. It’s a relatively easy … doable change.”’
Paid for by the countries who want that to happen. It’s a relatively easy … doable change.
Rafale is the jet which Canada should be ordering, not the Super Hornet and certainly not the F-35 in any of its versions.
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There has been some talk of "If Canada does not buy F35s... loss of work on F35 parts".
If this is the case and the work presently being done in Canada is "repatriated" to the USA, how long will it take to set up a suitable manufacturing base? Yet another delay in the F35 project...
If this is the case and the work presently being done in Canada is "repatriated" to the USA, how long will it take to set up a suitable manufacturing base? Yet another delay in the F35 project...
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One thing about the Super Hornets, you know the cost to procure and you have a good handle on how much it will cost to maintain and keep them flying.
When it come to the F-35, what the true cost to produce and procure isn't clear from one day to the next. But, you can count on LM not losing money selling them. When it comes to the cost of maintaining them and keeping them flying, that is anybody best guess and will be for sometime into the future.
When it come to the F-35, what the true cost to produce and procure isn't clear from one day to the next. But, you can count on LM not losing money selling them. When it comes to the cost of maintaining them and keeping them flying, that is anybody best guess and will be for sometime into the future.
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As far as the F35 is concerned, nobody knows what it can / will do as there are no final version 3F software load planes flying.
If the Super Hornet ticks the boxes...
Rafale would be my preferred option..
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Will the Canuckian Shornet be the F/A-18EH - eh?
'PhilipG' wot is a 'final version of 3F [F-35] software load'? & some news otherwise:
RCAF?s Lt.-Gen. Hood throws a monkey wrench into Liberal claims about CF-18s | Ottawa Citizen
'PhilipG' wot is a 'final version of 3F [F-35] software load'? & some news otherwise:
RCAF?s Lt.-Gen. Hood throws a monkey wrench into Liberal claims about CF-18s | Ottawa Citizen
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 25th Nov 2016 at 20:42. Reason: F/A-18EH
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And how is that relevant? https://airrefuelingarchive.wordpres...nd-receptacle/