Iran

[Professor Plum]

Originally Posted by Video Mixdown

Hard to see why you’re attempting to compare UK and US forces. They are very different countries and UK’s forces are intended for defence of the UK and its interests with NATO and other allies. They are not intended for invading other countries. Maybe you’d do better comparing the US with countries having similar foreign policies.

I wasn’t comparing. Just replying to Bonkeys post.

[Steepclimb]

Originally Posted by larssnowpharter

In the 24 hrs to 5 April around 15 to 18 ships have passed through the SofH. This marks the highest traffic since early March.
Of note is that a number of these vessels have been carrying Iranian oil meaning that Iran is now exporting more oil in money terms than before the conflict began.

That's likely to change quite soon.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Some inaccuracies in the Ward Carroll video from retired USN & US Army guys.

The C-130J line is not closed and any new or in-use C-130J could be turned into replacement HC-130J and/or MC-130J at a maintenance depot given a lot of time & $ but the USAF does have significant numbers of each so probably not necessary.

If indeed the recovered WSO is a full colonel (US O-6), it isn't the 48th FW Commander - that is an O-7 post. The 2 x aircrew rated O-6s in 48th FW are the Deputy Wing CC and the OG CC. It might be the rank colonel was used in the POTUS announcement but actually meant lt col (O-5) which could be the sqn CC or DO.

https://www.lakenheath.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/

[ORAC]

If indeed the recovered WSO is a full colonel (US O-6), it isn't the 48th FW Commander - that is an O-7 post. The 2 x aircrew rated O-6s in 48th FW are the Deputy Wing CC and the OG CC. It might be the rank colonel was used in the POTUS announcement but actually meant lt col (O-5) which could be the sqn CC or DO.

I was presuming it was one of the Sqn execs as it is a deployment to operate out of a Gulf FOB and the wing execs were unlikely to deploy with them.

[bilby_qld]

Originally Posted by Bell_ringer

Are there any accurate numbers to what this little exercise is costing the taxpayer?
It must be quite impressive by now.

Surely the costs will just be deducted from the rescued WSO's pay. As long as he serves for another few tens of thousands of years, it shouldn't have to cost the taxpayer anything

[langleybaston]

.................... knows the price of everything and the value of nothing ...................

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
Are there any accurate numbers to what this little exercise is costing the taxpayer?
It must be quite impressive by now.

I think the more relevant question might be: What is the benefit to the moral of the troops to know the extent that the higher ups would go to implementing the rescue of a downed airman.

[dga718]

Originally Posted by tdracer

I think the more relevant question might be: What is the benefit to the moral of the troops to know the extent that the higher ups would go to implementing the rescue of a downed airman.

Indeed; speaking as a US taxpayer, there is also a morale boost to the citizenry. After experiencing the immeasurable costs of four years that included US astronauts stranded in space for months; a chinese "weather balloon" allowed to drift unopposed across our country; or the taliban handed the keys to $85B worth of our equipment while killing our soldiers - this bold, direct action to rescue one of ours is a refreshing change and I am grateful for it. Prayers for those serving and for a quick end to the hostilities.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09

The SF C-295 seen low flying in X videos yesterday managed to recover 2 of the MH-6M that would fit - that's why only 2 of 4 had to be destroyed.

Do you have a source for that?

Granted, the blades could be folded, but isn't the rotor mast height too great to fit in the C-295's hold?

[West Coast]

Originally Posted by Video Mixdown

Hard to see why you’re attempting to compare UK and US forces. They are very different countries and UK’s forces are intended for defence of the UK and its interests with NATO and other allies. They are not intended for invading other countries. Maybe you’d do better comparing the US with countries having similar foreign policies.

Is this defensive nature you allude to enshrined somewhere such as other nation have chosen to do? Japanese Constitution, article 9 comes to mind, though it seems that is in flux.

[Video Mixdown]

Originally Posted by West Coast

Is this defensive nature you allude to enshrined somewhere such as other nation have chosen to do? Japanese Constitution, article 9 comes to mind, though it seems that is in flux.

You know the answer. I just said that the US and UK have fundamentally different systems of government and defence. Comparisons are futile. I’m sure we are both very happy about that.

[Steepclimb]

Originally Posted by Bell_ringer

Are there any accurate numbers to what this little exercise is costing the taxpayer?
It must be quite impressive by now.

You've been pilloried a bit. It's quite amusing. Are you an Accountant? If so you're probably on the wrong forum.

But the loss of several aircraft to recover a mere couple of airmen is considered a good exchange.

Because we in this part of the world we value life over matériel. Note spelling.

[212man]

Originally Posted by Steepclimb

You've been pilloried a bit. It's quite amusing. Are you an Accountant? If so you're probably on the wrong forum.

But the loss of several aircraft to recover a mere couple of airmen is considered a good exchange.

Because we in this part of the world we value life over matériel. Note spelling.

so, do you think they were at a real risk of being killed, or being paraded ala Gary Powers style? Certainly no orange suite or Saddam treatment I would say. But, that’s my opinion.

[West Coast]

Originally Posted by Video Mixdown

You know the answer. I just said that the US and UK have fundamentally different systems of government and defence. Comparisons are futile. I’m sure we are both very happy about that.

The answer is the opposite of what you’re trying to push. The UK armed forces are structured and equipped to participate in offensive operations, just on a smaller scale than the US.

[West Coast]

Originally Posted by 212man

so, do you think they were at a real risk of being killed, or being paraded ala Gary Powers style? Certainly no orange suite or Saddam treatment I would say. But, that’s my opinion.

I would worry more about the treatment by captors who were on the receiving end of what the F15 dropped.

[Steepclimb]

Originally Posted by 212man

so, do you think they were at a real risk of being killed, or being paraded ala Gary Powers style? Certainly no orange suite or Saddam treatment I would say. But, that’s my opinion.

Maybe, I went to Oshkosh 2016. I met the Blackhawk pilot who was captured in Somalia, whose name escapes me. He told us of his experiences. Being Oshkosh you could talk to him directly and I did. I told him how I believed he was a dead man when I saw him on TV. And my relief when he was released. It was quite emotional for me.

I'm not American and no fan of the current regime. I should point out I am a pilot so obviously I favour pilots.

Watching a pilot humiliated is not for me.

[GlobalNav]

Amazing how we search for things to argue about, to no end really.

[fdr]

Originally Posted by Steepclimb

Maybe, I went to Oshkosh 2016. I met the Blackhawk pilot who was captured in Somalia, whose name escapes me. He told us of his experiences. Being Oshkosh you could talk to him directly and I did. I told him how I believed he was a dead man when I saw him on TV. And my relief when he was released. It was quite emotional for me.

I'm not American and no fan of the current regime. I should point out I am a pilot so obviously I favour pilots.

Watching a pilot humiliated is not for me.

CW4 Mike Durant was the Super 6-4 pilot, the copilot was CW4 Ray Frank the co-pilot, and crew chiefs SSG Tommy Field and SSG Bill Cleveland. Mike was the only survivor of the impact. Gary Gordon and Randy Shugart were the delta operators that dropped in with Super 6-2 (which was also hit by an RPG shortly afterwards) to secure the wreck and the survivor. Sadly a well deserved MoH to both in a peace keeping operation.

Super 6-1 was commanded by CW3 Cliff "Elvis" Wolcott and CW3 Donovan "Bull" Briley as co-pilot, both killed on the impact. SSG Daniel Busch and SGT Jim Smith were the snipers on board, and survived the crash, defending their own aircraft, Smith wrote the eye witness statement of Daniel Busch's silver star awarded posthumously, Busch succumbing to multiple gunshot wounds received in the defence of the aircraft and the survivors.

CMOHS Randy Shugart
CMOS Gary Gordon
VA narrative Daniel Busch

[Barry Bernoulli]

Nine (9) AAR platforms appear to be just airborne out of Tel Aviv eastbound (10th heading towards UK). That's a lot!

Also Saudi SAAB 2000 AEW&C over Riyahd, plus a NATO E-3 and Turkish TB-2 in SE Turkiye.

[gums]

Wow!. Must be big receivers, like 52's

Gums guesses...


Mass gaggle, but could azlso be a "flush" to
get off a potential target