Iran

[Bonkey]

Originally Posted by Professor Plum

Seriously good job on the Rescue!

Doubt many other (if any) Military would have been able to pull this off on their own.

I imagine the IRGC will have been all over the place-desperate to get their hands on any US Service personnel.

And yeah-would probably make a good film too!

That's somewhat insulting. Pretty much all NATO members would be perfectly able to do the same and many have done on countless occasions. Not least the Israelis and British special forces have examples in the last 50 years.

[galaxy flyer]

Originally Posted by Bonkey

That's somewhat insulting. Pretty much all NATO members would be perfectly able to do the same and many have done on countless occasions. Not least the Israelis and British special forces have examples in the last 50 years.

on this scale, I doubt it? Yes, Entebbe, what else?

[fdr]

Originally Posted by Bonkey

That's somewhat insulting. Pretty much all NATO members would be perfectly able to do the same and many have done on countless occasions. Not least the Israelis and British special forces have examples in the last 50 years.

BONKEY, 10/10 for loyalty to brand, 1/10 for reality.

The U.S. is unique in the amount of effort that can be put towards CSAR activity. The cost in equipment and personnel is enormous on all of these types of missions. Israel is good at clandestine activities, and also apparently getting lots of experience at attacking civilian population centres, these are not the skills necessary for what the CSAR crews do. I doubt that any other country would politically support such actions. Once upon a time, there was SAR capability in the UK, air-sea-rescue, etc, but that was long ago. Even within the maritime rescue that the UK has today, it is a civil program, not so much armed.

[galaxy flyer]

Originally Posted by fdr

As the RAF and NATO crews are not involved in this elective war, (the Bibbi-Donny Hubris Circus...) possibly a moot point.

The RAF, nor NATO would have the spare tin to throw at this activity:

• 1 x F15E
• 1 x F16
• 1 x A10C
• 2 x MH60
• 1 x MH6
• 2 x MC130J

(these being the indicated damaged or destroyed assets on this rescue)

to recover a single service member who would otherwise need to tolerate board and lodging provided by Iran. Iran is not the Taliban, each captured crew member adds to the bargaining power of Iran, but each one harmed while in captivity is adverse to the case Iran appears to be making. The case being made? Iran is not Israel. This case is being made by Israel, much to my frustration.
ROM, about 80+ troops were put in harms way, and fortunately no further lives were lost. Congress could reduce the risk of losses from the "no man left behind" policy by doing their job on kerning the actions of the wrecking ball that is the driver of this glorious excursion.

I’m not fan of Donnie and he’s made a royal mess of it, but time for counterfactual,

iran has every incentive based on its history of dominating the Persian Gulf for millennia to want to return to tha5 position. It’s has been on a near-messianic mission to oppose the US in the region, killed a thousand in Iraq, is viciously opposed to Arab domination backed by US power and is religiously out of step with Sunni Arabs in every way. They have witnessed US power, have successfully opposed it in Iraq in many ways. Lastly, they know the history of North Korea’s nuclear path—slow rolled Western opposition, lots of negotiations, lots of threats but eventually nuclear armed NOK won’t be attacked. Why would the Iranians NOT seek and acquire nuclear weapons? It’s totally in their interests.

Now, a nuclear armed Iran says, “the straits are closed except for who pays and we permit transit passage. They are in same place as today but cannot be militarily opposed. They don’t even have to nuke the US or Gulf states or Israel. Just say UNCLOS doesn’t apply to the Straits of Hormuz, pay us.

That’s the real threat.

[langleybaston]

Originally Posted by Bonkey

That's somewhat insulting. Pretty much all NATO members would be perfectly able to do the same and many have done on countless occasions. Not least the Israelis and British special forces have examples in the last 50 years.

Do please find some examples of successful extractions on this scale and with this degree of intrinsic difficulty.
A list will do, assume the Forum is knowledgeable and can join dots.

[CharlieMike]

Originally Posted by fdr

As the RAF and NATO crews are not involved in this elective war, (the Bibbi-Donny Hubris Circus...) possibly a moot point.

The RAF, nor NATO would have the spare tin to throw at this activity:

• 1 x F15E
• 1 x F16
• 1 x A10C
• 2 x MH60
• 1 x MH6
• 2 x MC130J

That would be the loss of a significant percentage of the UK's entire air force.

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by CharlieMike

That would be the loss of a significant percentage of the UK's entire air force.

The UK would never be so cavalier with their assets or forces. Some might consider that a weakness, others, common sense.

[dga718]

Originally Posted by Bell_ringer

Good perspectives. Thank you.
Ships have been scuttled since the dawn of time, and when you’re burning up to $2B per day, ageing aircraft are small change when faced with the consequences of losing an airman to the enemy.

Yes, and from the prior administration, we have the vivid example of donating $85 Billion dollars worth of advance weaponry & aviation equipment to the islamic fanatics upon our withdrawal from Bagram AFB. The costs and consequences of that inadvertent donation can't be quantified - would have been much better to have destroyed it all.

[Professor Plum]

Originally Posted by Bonkey

That's somewhat insulting. Pretty much all NATO members would be perfectly able to do the same and many have done on countless occasions. Not least the Israelis and British special forces have examples in the last 50 years.

I didn’t mean to insult you or my NATO colleagues. I think we may have to agree to disagree.

The US has the right kit in the right numbers to pull this off. With appropriately trained operators (aircrew or otherwise).

Something smaller scale-yeah i’d agree. But something of this scale, in my opinion would need multiple NATO partners to achieve.

How many C130’s can the RAF afford to lose in just one CSAR Op? Slightly tongue in cheek but i hope you see what i mean?

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Professor Plum

How many C130’s can the RAF afford to lose in just one CSAR Op?

Hardly a question when the RAF no longer operates the C-130..... and A400's might be argued as being unsuitable anyway....?

Maybe some C295W's wouldn't be a bad idea though........ .but given the MOD's 2 types per fleet policy even that isn't going to happen.

[Professor Plum]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Hardly a question when the RAF no longer operates the C-130..... and A400's might be argued as being unsuitable anyway....?

Hi GeeRam. That was actually precisely my point.

[Canary Boy]

Originally Posted by langleybaston

Do please find some examples of successful extractions on this scale and with this degree of intrinsic difficulty.
A list will do, assume the Forum is knowledgeable and can join dots.

Here’s the starter for your list: Op Barras Sierra Leone 2000

[higthepig]

Well done to those that did.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Ward Carroll session with former US SF SMSgt Jack Murphy who broke the story of the successful completion of the mission from his contacts hours before it was officially confirmed

You Tube

[sycamore]

A couple you might be interested in,from long ago,and far away,.
Rotorheads,,Page 15, 17 Mar 2025,Thread ;`Underslung loads in emergency`,page2;
#25;#29;#40..

[RAFEngO74to09]

The SF C-295 seen low flying in X videos yesterday managed to recover 2 of the MH-6M that would fit - that's why only 2 of 4 had to be destroyed.
76 aircraft involved - started with 4 x B-1B dropping 96 x GBU-31 to keep heads down!
16 x A-10s on task + another 14 on ground alert.
40 x 1000-lb bombs from B-1Bs used to destroy the stranded aircraft.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by fdr

to recover a single service member who would otherwise need to tolerate board and lodging provided by Iran. Iran is not the Taliban, each captured crew member adds to the bargaining power of Iran, but each one harmed while in captivity is adverse to the case Iran appears to be making. The case being made? Iran is not Israel. This case is being made by Israel, much to my frustration.

The Iranian treatment of the US hostages 46 years ago was not exactly a model of compassion and kindness - and they were civilians.
Getting their military bombed out of existence on a daily basis is not exactly conducive to good treatment of captured enemy.

[ORAC]

76 aircraft involved - started with 4 x B-1B dropping 96 x GBU-31 to keep heads down!

Moran flight out of Fairford: Iran

[Video Mixdown]

Originally Posted by Professor Plum

I didn’t mean to insult you or my NATO colleagues. I think we may have to agree to disagree.

The US has the right kit in the right numbers to pull this off. With appropriately trained operators (aircrew or otherwise).

Something smaller scale-yeah i’d agree. But something of this scale, in my opinion would need multiple NATO partners to achieve.

How many C130’s can the RAF afford to lose in just one CSAR Op? Slightly tongue in cheek but i hope you see what i mean?

Hard to see why you’re attempting to compare UK and US forces. They are very different countries and UK’s forces are intended for defence of the UK and its interests with NATO and other allies. They are not intended for invading other countries. Maybe you’d do better comparing the US with countries having similar foreign policies.

[Bfah]

On the flip side:

As much as the Iranian TV/Internet is in places down, I wonder what the local media coverage of the downed F15 was?

One would assume that the hunt for the missing crew member was being mentioned (even by social media of the Iranian troops talking to families etc about their 'mission'..)?

Then that sinking feeling of telling the big knobs that the enemy flew in to get the pilot, big !!!! fight and then flew away.....