V-Force Deterrent Targets
Cunning Artificer
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We ground crew travelled in style in the tail boom of a Beverley. At least we had a toilet and could wander about. The general idea was that half of us would deploy and prepare the dispersal site while the other half generated all the base aircraft. Once we finished the "Combats" they would fly off and be received and re-generated at the dispersal. The base party followed in the Beverleys and Hastings. That could take a long time in a Beverly if there was a headwind!
Once our aircraft scrambled, we had about five hours to pack up, fly back and receive our aircraft at Waddington, where we'd do all the post flight servicing and rectifications. It wasn't unusual to spend 50 or 60 hours without a formal break which is probably where the 'Mickey Finn' title of the exercise came from.
Once our aircraft scrambled, we had about five hours to pack up, fly back and receive our aircraft at Waddington, where we'd do all the post flight servicing and rectifications. It wasn't unusual to spend 50 or 60 hours without a formal break which is probably where the 'Mickey Finn' title of the exercise came from.
We ground crew travelled in style in the tail boom of a Beverley. At least we had a toilet and could wander about. The general idea was that half of us would deploy and prepare the dispersal site while the other half generated all the base aircraft. Once we finished the "Combats" they would fly off and be received and re-generated at the dispersal. The base party followed in the Beverleys and Hastings. That could take a long time in a Beverly if there was a headwind!
Once our aircraft scrambled, we had about five hours to pack up, fly back and receive our aircraft at Waddington, where we'd do all the post flight servicing and rectifications. It wasn't unusual to spend 50 or 60 hours without a formal break which is probably where the 'Mickey Finn' title of the exercise came from.
Once our aircraft scrambled, we had about five hours to pack up, fly back and receive our aircraft at Waddington, where we'd do all the post flight servicing and rectifications. It wasn't unusual to spend 50 or 60 hours without a formal break which is probably where the 'Mickey Finn' title of the exercise came from.
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Thread Starter
TO, for a Distant dispersal you should have flown. somat wrong then
I did fly Scampton - Kinloss and a couple of others. Another unusual one was with Blue Steel Victors. One of the Victors carried a "wet one" i.e. HTP and Kerosene. After a couple of days an HTP emergency offload was called for. No dump pit available so straight onto the grass whilst the Fire Section hosed down. Still left a huge burn mark on the grass.
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Thread Starter
TO, a Scampton aircraft did the same at Waddo, OC Ops requested a bag of grass seed.
Oberon #65
If it was the deployment I think you mean it was in Feb 1982. Some time previouslyMarham had enjoyed a Part One Taceval at 1800 on a Sunday evening. All the Victor Tankers had been fully fuelled and Combat Checked on the Friday afternoon, as was SOP, for an Akrotiri trail departing early on Monday morning. Needless to say generation was achieved in a very short time, as all the crews and groundcrews were just about to go to bed ready for the early start. Taceval accused the station of cheating, so called a No Notice Part Two. Again this coincided with a trail, this time Buccaneers to Goose Bay. Plan was (after Tanker - Tanker top ups) to trail the Buccs to 32W and RTB. On return the Tankers were diverted to Leuchars, which was on Maxeval, and put on state ASAP by the aircrews and crew chiefs. We were expecting the ground party to arrive by air, but no AT available hence the bus ride, leaving late at night after a full working day. 32 people plus luggage, tools, rifles, gas masks etc in each 32 seat coach!!
We flew the aircraft a couple of times each with crew turnrounds before the groundcrew arrived. When we saw the "Zombies" getting of the buses after their 48 hr ordeal we refused to let them anyway near the aircraft, until fully rested, for Flight Safety reasons. The crews flew and turned the aircraft on Wednesday as well. The ground party turned the aircraft ready for the survival scramble and endex on Thursday.
I had won the star prize of a scenic coach ride back to Marham on Friday as my seat on the aircraft was taken by a Flight Commander. So after a pleasant evening at the OM Guest Night ( allowed to the after dinner drink in flying suits) it was on the road. This time via a night stop at Leeming as it was felt that the ground party would not accept another direct journey. Finally home on Saturday afternoon after a pretty awful couple of days on the road in a very much overloaded coach. But at least I only had to do it one way!!
If it was the deployment I think you mean it was in Feb 1982. Some time previouslyMarham had enjoyed a Part One Taceval at 1800 on a Sunday evening. All the Victor Tankers had been fully fuelled and Combat Checked on the Friday afternoon, as was SOP, for an Akrotiri trail departing early on Monday morning. Needless to say generation was achieved in a very short time, as all the crews and groundcrews were just about to go to bed ready for the early start. Taceval accused the station of cheating, so called a No Notice Part Two. Again this coincided with a trail, this time Buccaneers to Goose Bay. Plan was (after Tanker - Tanker top ups) to trail the Buccs to 32W and RTB. On return the Tankers were diverted to Leuchars, which was on Maxeval, and put on state ASAP by the aircrews and crew chiefs. We were expecting the ground party to arrive by air, but no AT available hence the bus ride, leaving late at night after a full working day. 32 people plus luggage, tools, rifles, gas masks etc in each 32 seat coach!!
We flew the aircraft a couple of times each with crew turnrounds before the groundcrew arrived. When we saw the "Zombies" getting of the buses after their 48 hr ordeal we refused to let them anyway near the aircraft, until fully rested, for Flight Safety reasons. The crews flew and turned the aircraft on Wednesday as well. The ground party turned the aircraft ready for the survival scramble and endex on Thursday.
I had won the star prize of a scenic coach ride back to Marham on Friday as my seat on the aircraft was taken by a Flight Commander. So after a pleasant evening at the OM Guest Night ( allowed to the after dinner drink in flying suits) it was on the road. This time via a night stop at Leeming as it was felt that the ground party would not accept another direct journey. Finally home on Saturday afternoon after a pretty awful couple of days on the road in a very much overloaded coach. But at least I only had to do it one way!!
TT
You've got it!, I knew I hadn't imagined it and apart from the destination base I nearly got it right. I don't remember being armed as, like several others, I could have easily shot someone when the bus trip back was announced.
You've got it!, I knew I hadn't imagined it and apart from the destination base I nearly got it right. I don't remember being armed as, like several others, I could have easily shot someone when the bus trip back was announced.
TT,
the lack of AT for your call out is a bit of a surprise as all the Herc sqns had a crew on BCSB (Bomber Command Standby) later called QRA. We knew the code names as 'Mickey Finn' and 'Clip Key'. According to my log book I did a lot of NI 'Banner' tasks that month so your AT may well have been diverted to support one of the regular 'surges' to that location.
the lack of AT for your call out is a bit of a surprise as all the Herc sqns had a crew on BCSB (Bomber Command Standby) later called QRA. We knew the code names as 'Mickey Finn' and 'Clip Key'. According to my log book I did a lot of NI 'Banner' tasks that month so your AT may well have been diverted to support one of the regular 'surges' to that location.
AA62
I think the problem was that the deployment was for ONLY a Taceval, so it did not rate the AT that was on Standby for a PROPER deployment. Some Senior Officer Jobsworth would have kept hold of "his" asset in case a "REAL" deployment came along!!
I think the problem was that the deployment was for ONLY a Taceval, so it did not rate the AT that was on Standby for a PROPER deployment. Some Senior Officer Jobsworth would have kept hold of "his" asset in case a "REAL" deployment came along!!
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Thread Starter
Bomber exercises always lower priority to Transport ops or scheduled AT. If the Taceval tasking had not been pre-booked, really a Taceval team responsibility, then getting AT would always be difficult.
Once we had a 6 week det to Malta but Command hadn't booked AT. We flew out BUA with DanAir doing the freight.
Once we had a 6 week det to Malta but Command hadn't booked AT. We flew out BUA with DanAir doing the freight.
Take your point chaps but I have been called out on several occasions to support a practice dispersal. If we were not expected to turn up for the practice events then we would struggle come the day.
One of the problems with supporting units like yourselves and others is that many stations were virtually on 'care and maintenance' outside normal hours. This precluded us actually landing there.
I recall a FJ recovery from Akrotiri having to be deplaned at Lyneham instead of their home base. Their Sqn boss had a rant at the captain who put him on to our ops. The controller told him that his station flatly refused to remain open to allow us to go there. This was not an isolated case by any means.
One of the problems with supporting units like yourselves and others is that many stations were virtually on 'care and maintenance' outside normal hours. This precluded us actually landing there.
I recall a FJ recovery from Akrotiri having to be deplaned at Lyneham instead of their home base. Their Sqn boss had a rant at the captain who put him on to our ops. The controller told him that his station flatly refused to remain open to allow us to go there. This was not an isolated case by any means.
AA62
The receiving station refusing to stay open was a frequent occurrence. However, sometimes they did. One time a Lincolnshire F3 base stayed open for the detachment Tristar KC1 to deliver the troops. The info we had at Group said that the station did not have the correct equipment for handling said aircraft. The Station Commander affirmed that the station was fully capable of handling a Tristar KC1, so we agreed to offload there.
The Tristar arrived and a long time was spent unloading the passengers and baggage down a stepladder placed on the back of a 4 ton truck! The freight stayed on the aircraft back to Brize for collection later. We did not fall for that one again.
The receiving station refusing to stay open was a frequent occurrence. However, sometimes they did. One time a Lincolnshire F3 base stayed open for the detachment Tristar KC1 to deliver the troops. The info we had at Group said that the station did not have the correct equipment for handling said aircraft. The Station Commander affirmed that the station was fully capable of handling a Tristar KC1, so we agreed to offload there.
The Tristar arrived and a long time was spent unloading the passengers and baggage down a stepladder placed on the back of a 4 ton truck! The freight stayed on the aircraft back to Brize for collection later. We did not fall for that one again.
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Once we had a 6 week det to Malta but Command hadn't booked AT. We flew out BUA with DanAir doing the freight.
214 did one Sept/Oct 59 when we had HDU's fitted in the bomb bay's!
Group or Command decided it was too much trouble to send a real 'bomber' sqdn as it would upset the organisers. Though we were taken off the roster after that.
BUA would have been luxury, we went by Beverley.
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Thread Starter
Ian, no wonder as that was 2 years before Charioteer. In 67 we still took all the targeting material. Stationery boxes secured with special FCO lead seals. The special bit was the way they were secured. We could open the boxes without cutting the cord or seals.
TT,
offload was not normally a problem for the Hercules, but often the reason given for not accepting us was lack of the appropriate level of fire cover !
offload was not normally a problem for the Hercules, but often the reason given for not accepting us was lack of the appropriate level of fire cover !
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Thread Starter
AA62, that stirred the brain cells. Bomber Command could increase local fire cover by deploying the BC Reserve. I seem to think this was based at Scampton foir obvious reasons. Whether it could meet short notice requirements was something else.
Having been on the receiving end of 'All VC10s go to Brize' in my brief time on fighters, when I eventually had the opportunity to do so, if we were bringing back FJ aircrew from a detachment in the VC10K Super FunBus, I'd ask the AARC if we could be re-tasked to land at their bases instead. Amenable AARCs such as TT would usually agree, so we'd land, have a quick customs clearance, then do the 30-45 min back to Brize. Which beat the heck out of the 32 seat coach journeys I remember with much loathing!
Of course there'd be the odd know-it-all ex-AT Air Engineer who'd try to screw things up, such as 'Caring Ken the Airman's Friend', who once tried to tell me that we couldn't bring the FJ mates' LSJs with us as they were 'Dangerous Air Cargo'...
So I invited him to look under his desk at his own LSJ, which was just as much DAC as the ones double wrapped in poly bags lashed down in the tank bay...
Another delightful habit of some FJ stations was their refusal to send MT to collect their chaps until they'd been told that the aircraft had landed at Brize. Bringing some F-4 crews back from ASI once (we didn't have the fuel for their destination and back to Brize), I asked what their onward travel arrangements were "The buggers at will probably send us a bus when we've landed", they told me. Great - after the usual Movs faff, they'd have to sit and wait hours until a bus arrived to drive them to Wattisham? No problemo though; just off the sticky-out bit of Africa..."Architect, Architect, this is RAFAIR nnnn on 11s upper, request phone patch with Wattisham extension nnn....." "Hello, MT Control" "Good day, just to let you know that the pax are just landing at Brize, so could you send the bus please?" "OK - they must be early, but we'll send it now...."
And lo and behold, just as they emerged from customs, their coach arrived - I love it when a plan comes together!
Of course there'd be the odd know-it-all ex-AT Air Engineer who'd try to screw things up, such as 'Caring Ken the Airman's Friend', who once tried to tell me that we couldn't bring the FJ mates' LSJs with us as they were 'Dangerous Air Cargo'...
So I invited him to look under his desk at his own LSJ, which was just as much DAC as the ones double wrapped in poly bags lashed down in the tank bay...Another delightful habit of some FJ stations was their refusal to send MT to collect their chaps until they'd been told that the aircraft had landed at Brize. Bringing some F-4 crews back from ASI once (we didn't have the fuel for their destination and back to Brize), I asked what their onward travel arrangements were "The buggers at will probably send us a bus when we've landed", they told me. Great - after the usual Movs faff, they'd have to sit and wait hours until a bus arrived to drive them to Wattisham? No problemo though; just off the sticky-out bit of Africa..."Architect, Architect, this is RAFAIR nnnn on 11s upper, request phone patch with Wattisham extension nnn....." "Hello, MT Control" "Good day, just to let you know that the pax are just landing at Brize, so could you send the bus please?" "OK - they must be early, but we'll send it now...."
And lo and behold, just as they emerged from customs, their coach arrived - I love it when a plan comes together!
BEagle
It was not "Caring Ken"s fault, but the Duvet Fluffers who originally banned the FJ guys from carrying the LSJs with them, as "they might fiddle with then in a dangerous manner". When it was pointed out that the FJ guys needed them if they were to operate a trail leg, they agreed that LSJs could travel on the same aircraft. But, the gas bottles and miniflares would have to be removed. A Safety Equipper could travel on each tanker to reassemble the kit when required!! Their thought processes did not run as far as independent checks on the work.
After very lengthy discussions ending up at 1* level they accepted the need for the LSJs. But they would have to be double bagged and kept in the freight bay. We did not enlighten them about the arrangements on the Tristar K versions, or ask about double bagging the used ones. As you say there were several LSJs and other safety equipments on the aircraft, plus up to 120 tonnes of fuel.
It was not "Caring Ken"s fault, but the Duvet Fluffers who originally banned the FJ guys from carrying the LSJs with them, as "they might fiddle with then in a dangerous manner". When it was pointed out that the FJ guys needed them if they were to operate a trail leg, they agreed that LSJs could travel on the same aircraft. But, the gas bottles and miniflares would have to be removed. A Safety Equipper could travel on each tanker to reassemble the kit when required!! Their thought processes did not run as far as independent checks on the work.
After very lengthy discussions ending up at 1* level they accepted the need for the LSJs. But they would have to be double bagged and kept in the freight bay. We did not enlighten them about the arrangements on the Tristar K versions, or ask about double bagging the used ones. As you say there were several LSJs and other safety equipments on the aircraft, plus up to 120 tonnes of fuel.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Thread Starter
TT, unlike a 9mm that we were encouraged to strip and reassemble I had no such desire with an LSJ, or more recently LPA as I had no confidence in my ability to get everything in right place, right way up and still serviceable.