More closures (Sept 16)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North of Watford, South of Watford Gap
Age: 68
Posts: 251
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Re-telling a myth - even to an MP - doesn't make it less of a myth. It appears that there are files in the National Archives relating tot he purchase of the Halton Park estate; without seeing the details we can't tell whether there were conditions imposed by the Rothschilds.
If, as LJ says, the House and other buildings are Grade II Listed, it would be difficult to demolish them. Far easier (and cheaper) to convert Halton House into a luxury hotel, which - arguably - it is*
* for given values of "luxury"
If, as LJ says, the House and other buildings are Grade II Listed, it would be difficult to demolish them. Far easier (and cheaper) to convert Halton House into a luxury hotel, which - arguably - it is*
* for given values of "luxury"
Grade II* listed is Halton House and grounds:
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...x?uid=MBC12143
Grade II listed is Henderson and Groves:
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...x?uid=MBC25662
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...x?uid=MBC24941
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...x?uid=MBC24942
Plus an Ancient Monument in the form of a Neothlithic Long and Round Barrow:
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...d='MBC6515'
So not a lot of building going on there then!
As for the sale of the house, it was included in the sale of the whole estate on Alfred's death. The RAF/MOD have sold lots of it off since including the whole of Halton village that belonged to them, the old hospital site and various packets of farm land - none of which went back to the Rothschilds. The myth of the house is where people get mixed up with Bentley Priory - now that did have a restrictive covenant on it.
What I find so incredibly sad is that we will never have these assets ever again. I disagree with the Nip - the RAF is not for the old, it is for the future...
I offer back at that - The name of 'reform' simply covers what is latently a process of the theft of the national heritage...
Further, if the future was more important than heritage then we would abandon Cranwell all together and build on a brownsite a completely new 21st Century facility. So that argument about looking to the future is flawed.
LJ
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...x?uid=MBC12143
Grade II listed is Henderson and Groves:
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...x?uid=MBC25662
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...x?uid=MBC24941
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...x?uid=MBC24942
Plus an Ancient Monument in the form of a Neothlithic Long and Round Barrow:
https://ubp.buckscc.gov.uk/SingleRes...d='MBC6515'
So not a lot of building going on there then!
As for the sale of the house, it was included in the sale of the whole estate on Alfred's death. The RAF/MOD have sold lots of it off since including the whole of Halton village that belonged to them, the old hospital site and various packets of farm land - none of which went back to the Rothschilds. The myth of the house is where people get mixed up with Bentley Priory - now that did have a restrictive covenant on it.
What I find so incredibly sad is that we will never have these assets ever again. I disagree with the Nip - the RAF is not for the old, it is for the future...
I offer back at that - The name of 'reform' simply covers what is latently a process of the theft of the national heritage...
Further, if the future was more important than heritage then we would abandon Cranwell all together and build on a brownsite a completely new 21st Century facility. So that argument about looking to the future is flawed.
LJ
LJ,
It doesn't matter whether I agree with what I was told or not. As an example do you really think that most of the airmen/women care anything about Halton house? Look at the surveys and read the threads on this forum and others.
They want better homes, more money and a better career path.
The thread running about leaving the RAF sums things up; people don't care when you leave and quite a few remember their time but don't get involved.
I, like many others, have seen change, some good some not so good. I am now in my early 50's and since I was born I have been part of the RAF. I am saddened to see places that I lived in such a poor state. Bad management is a large part of the problem.
Cranwell is a right mess with problems in some messes at he moment. Heating and hot water have been lost numerous times over the last 2 years. What the 'candidates' must think I don't know. Those in power decided just to repair the problem, rather than the cause. Problem occurs again and again. Now it is more expensive to fix properly than it would have been 2 years ago.
I don't know where all the families accommodation will come from for those moving up from Halton. Just hope it is not another Lyn/Bzn.
It doesn't matter whether I agree with what I was told or not. As an example do you really think that most of the airmen/women care anything about Halton house? Look at the surveys and read the threads on this forum and others.
They want better homes, more money and a better career path.
The thread running about leaving the RAF sums things up; people don't care when you leave and quite a few remember their time but don't get involved.
I, like many others, have seen change, some good some not so good. I am now in my early 50's and since I was born I have been part of the RAF. I am saddened to see places that I lived in such a poor state. Bad management is a large part of the problem.
Cranwell is a right mess with problems in some messes at he moment. Heating and hot water have been lost numerous times over the last 2 years. What the 'candidates' must think I don't know. Those in power decided just to repair the problem, rather than the cause. Problem occurs again and again. Now it is more expensive to fix properly than it would have been 2 years ago.
I don't know where all the families accommodation will come from for those moving up from Halton. Just hope it is not another Lyn/Bzn.
The Nip
Flogging off an old country house for a couple of million quid or so isn't going to sort the other issues that you mention - they need hundreds of millions to sort that out. Also, there will be a lot of sad faces, both airmen and officers, seeing Halton and Henlow go to save Cranwell. What you say about Cranwell is true, I have stayed there a few nights recently and its in a right state - but no different to much of the MOD's poorly maintained estate (both new build and old). So given the mantra about forgetting the old and buying towards the future then why save the dump that many call "Cranditz"? I'm pretty sure that if you asked serving/ex members of the RAF where the home of the RAF is then only a select few will say Cranwell. In fact, many more combined will have come through Halton as airmen or Henlow as officers in the past 35 years.
Whilst we are on the subject of the future or new, I recently stayed in a Mess that is 20 years old and a SLAM block that is 13 years old. Both were already showing their age - mouldy ceilings in both, worn out carpets, paint peeling, door furniture hanging off, holes in doors/walls, unbearably hot with poor ventilation and absolutely no soul.
I heard that Animal House has gone in AKR recently as well. When we lose places like that, we rip out our collective soul. I was one of the last to go through OASC at Biggin. I was so very proud to start my RAF career there, on such hallowed turf for the RAF as this famous BoB station, much more than I would have if I'd have gone to Cranwell to do my OASC.
As we approach 100 years of existence to throw away our heritage with such gay abandon saddens me. If nothing else, Lord Trenchard's very first RAF barrack blocks should be remodelled into an HQ for the parts of HQ Air that no longer fit at High Wycombe. The Messes and Quarters used to provide accomodation in support of High Wycombe and the cessation of the ludicrous excess rent allowance (or whatever name they call it these days) bill due to the lack of accomodation up the road. Finally, the House would make a fine facility for CAS and the SLT to meet rather than the nasty carbuncle they call a Mess at High Wycombe. Even then a good 40% of the land could be sold off for the Government's housing plans on the Old Workshops/SHQ site and the sports pitches. But we need to remember the cost of building at Cranwell is a factor of at least 10 higher than the possible receipts from the sale of Henlow and Halton (~£500M vs ~£50M), remembering that former RAF Bicester sold for just £3.2M just 3 years ago at the same time the new building at Lyneham cost £121M.
In my humble opinion of course
LJ
Flogging off an old country house for a couple of million quid or so isn't going to sort the other issues that you mention - they need hundreds of millions to sort that out. Also, there will be a lot of sad faces, both airmen and officers, seeing Halton and Henlow go to save Cranwell. What you say about Cranwell is true, I have stayed there a few nights recently and its in a right state - but no different to much of the MOD's poorly maintained estate (both new build and old). So given the mantra about forgetting the old and buying towards the future then why save the dump that many call "Cranditz"? I'm pretty sure that if you asked serving/ex members of the RAF where the home of the RAF is then only a select few will say Cranwell. In fact, many more combined will have come through Halton as airmen or Henlow as officers in the past 35 years.
Whilst we are on the subject of the future or new, I recently stayed in a Mess that is 20 years old and a SLAM block that is 13 years old. Both were already showing their age - mouldy ceilings in both, worn out carpets, paint peeling, door furniture hanging off, holes in doors/walls, unbearably hot with poor ventilation and absolutely no soul.
I heard that Animal House has gone in AKR recently as well. When we lose places like that, we rip out our collective soul. I was one of the last to go through OASC at Biggin. I was so very proud to start my RAF career there, on such hallowed turf for the RAF as this famous BoB station, much more than I would have if I'd have gone to Cranwell to do my OASC.
As we approach 100 years of existence to throw away our heritage with such gay abandon saddens me. If nothing else, Lord Trenchard's very first RAF barrack blocks should be remodelled into an HQ for the parts of HQ Air that no longer fit at High Wycombe. The Messes and Quarters used to provide accomodation in support of High Wycombe and the cessation of the ludicrous excess rent allowance (or whatever name they call it these days) bill due to the lack of accomodation up the road. Finally, the House would make a fine facility for CAS and the SLT to meet rather than the nasty carbuncle they call a Mess at High Wycombe. Even then a good 40% of the land could be sold off for the Government's housing plans on the Old Workshops/SHQ site and the sports pitches. But we need to remember the cost of building at Cranwell is a factor of at least 10 higher than the possible receipts from the sale of Henlow and Halton (~£500M vs ~£50M), remembering that former RAF Bicester sold for just £3.2M just 3 years ago at the same time the new building at Lyneham cost £121M.
In my humble opinion of course
LJ
