Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

End of Military SAR

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

End of Military SAR

Old 24th Aug 2016, 21:16
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uranus
Posts: 815
End of Military SAR

Given the growing number of tragedies on Britain's beaches right now, is there a correlation to the end of Search and Rescue (SAR) by the UK military? I know the S92 has a longer range than the old Sea King and so savings were made with the number of helicopters and distances between the civvy SAR bases - is there a chance that we have spread the assets too thinly?

The B Word


Last edited by The B Word; 24th Aug 2016 at 21:28.
The B Word is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 09:18
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,876
Not heard any suggestion that different SAR arrangements would have affected the outcome but people familiar with the circumstances have started a petition to institute local lifeguard patrols.
ShotOne is online now  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 09:23
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Next to Ross and Demelza
Age: 48
Posts: 891
No. Put it down to plain stupidity, same as every year. Most of these people are dead as soon as they go into the water. The only way to avoid that is to have a helicopter hovering above the beach.
Martin the Martian is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 09:51
  #4 (permalink)  
Red On, Green On
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 19
Posts: 6,487
The Fistral deaths occured next door to the new SAR base and far, far closer to it than Culdrose or Chivenor ever were.

Camber is round the corner from Lydd.

I'd wager that part of the problem is the huge amount of publicity on TV given to SAR in recent years, making people feel safer, expecting that the minute they get out of their depth a man on a winch will appear out of the sky.

I once saw a road safety expert suggest that rather than seatbelts, air bags and ABS we'd be better off with a six inch spike on the boss of the steering wheel. You'd drive far more gently knowing you'd get stabbed in the chest if you stopped in a hurry

Last edited by airborne_artist; 25th Aug 2016 at 09:56. Reason: Grammar/content
airborne_artist is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 10:37
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 75
Posts: 6,225
When seat belts became compulsory my dear old Dad in his usual curmudgeonly way opined that they would cause more accidents by giving people false sense of security

Last edited by Wander00; 25th Aug 2016 at 13:41. Reason: none so blind as those that cannnot see their typing errors!
Wander00 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 10:44
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 546
"When eat belts became compulsory"

Are they the same as gastric bands?
oxenos is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 14:37
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,120
A lackof understanding about the dangers even a relatively benign sea can pose. It's a pity those public information films of the 70s from the Coastguard aren't still shown.
Davef68 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 16:39
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 75
Posts: 6,225
Only need to have watched the recent BBC series on the RNLI
Wander00 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 17:58
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uranus
Posts: 815
I'd wager that part of the problem is the huge amount of publicity on TV given to SAR in recent years, making people feel safer, expecting that the minute they get out of their depth a man on a winch will appear out of the sky.
That is a very good point that I hadn't considered. It does seem odd that we've had such a run of them of late - if it continues then it must be that something has changed.

I'll leave the thread running in case new points, such as those so far, which might point to another reason.

The B Word
The B Word is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2016, 18:06
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 655
A lot of people forget that the primary purpose of RAF & RN rescue aircraft were for the military themselves. Civies came second.

If a helicopter was on route to a civilian incident and a military requirement popped up, they would divert.

However, now that its all privatised, I'm not sure where priorities lie.
Saintsman is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2016, 00:10
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where-ever nav's chooses....
Posts: 601
ps - the thread title should read 'end of RAF provided, land-based, civilian using, SAR'.
alfred_the_great is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2016, 05:40
  #12 (permalink)  
Red On, Green On
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 19
Posts: 6,487
ps - the thread title should read 'end of Royal Navy and RAF provided, land-based, civilian using, SAR'.
Fixed that for you
airborne_artist is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2016, 07:10
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 89
In recent days a young woman has been rescued three times in four days by the RNLI at Looe. Sadly these days unless a large notice says don't do this or that people seem to blunder in to the most silly situations. Here in Cornwall 771 Squadron is remembered with much gratitude but the Coastguard service seems to be doing a decent job judging by local reaction and of course they have the advantage of modern equipment.
Non Emmett is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2016, 07:45
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: home for good
Posts: 441
"In recent days a young woman has been rescued three times in four days by the RNLI at Looe" - maybe buying her a subscription to uniformdating.com would be cheaper?
Sandy Parts is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2016, 10:11
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,120
Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
A lot of people forget that the primary purpose of RAF & RN rescue aircraft were for the military themselves. Civies came second.

If a helicopter was on route to a civilian incident and a military requirement popped up, they would divert.

However, now that its all privatised, I'm not sure where priorities lie.
They are in theory HM Coastguard assets, so I would imagine the prioritisation depends on the job. Thankfully we have relatively few military aircraft incidents these days (albeit due to relatively few military aircraft!)
Davef68 is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2016, 22:48
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deep undercover
Posts: 19
I'm not sure how you can draw any correlation at all. If there was a correlation, surely people would be dying on the beaches close to the locations that the military service had been withdrawn from? So, for example, Chivenor was a military SAR base, but there hasn't been any increase in the number of deaths in the area just because Chivenor closed. Same applies up at Boulmer - no big increase in deaths just because there is no SR service on the doorstep. The sad events in Newquay a couple of weeks ago were down to pure bad luck and a horrendous turn in the previously benign sea conditions - the SAR helicopter was on scene within a few minutes, as was the Air Ambulance and the RNLI (there is a SAR base on the door step much closer than the Navy SAR at Culdrose was hence were on scene much quicker) but events unfolded too quickly even for the beach lifeguards to deal with. So, no correlation at all - I know people want to try and blame anyone they can for these sad situations but unfortunately, it's time to face up to the fact that sometimes accidents happen, and sometimes people need to take personal responsibility for their own safety. As for the new SAR service - yes, technically they're a Coastguard asset but tasking is allocated on the basis of urgency and clinical need by a central tasking authority and this includes a huge amount of inland work if you want to know how they're performing, ask the North Welsh, Scottish or Lake District mountain rescue teams. From what I've seen on social media and the MCA website, it all looks very positive.
Hawksridge is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2016, 11:20
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 192
A lot of people forget that the primary purpose of RAF & RN rescue aircraft were for the military themselves. Civies came second.
The primary purpose of RN rescue aircraft at Culdrose and Prestwick was civilian SAR - funded by the DTI. The RN continue to provide SAR with their helicopters.
Pheasant is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2016, 11:54
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 193
Originally Posted by Hawksridge View Post
.From what I've seen on social media and the MCA website, it all looks very positive.
Funny that.
satsuma is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2016, 13:36
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 97
Not sure if it's funny or not but it is very positive. Aircraft starts almost every time, and yet to have only three of us on the aircraft.
drugsdontwork is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2016, 15:52
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 7
Will the P8 aircraft have a SAR capability - long range maybe?
For Mil only or civvy use as well?
processor overloads is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.