P8 Manning
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P8 Manning
How likely is it for the MOD/RAF to create a reserve Sqn/Flt given the number of RAFVR personnel out there flying the 737-800 at the moment? I know of a handful. All they'd need was a conversion course and special to role training and then you'd have a cheap-ish source of suitably qualified and experienced pilots?
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FW,
Flying an aircraft is relatively easy - operating a highly complex military aircraft in a variety of roles with advanced sensors, weapons, comms and, doubtless, different flight regimes is very difficult. To use Tourist's approach above, could a CPL(H) fly a Chinook? Absolutely, it's actually a very simple aircraft to fly (AFCS in....) and he/she could probably hover and fly a circuit in very few minutes. Now, take that CPL(H) and ask them to fly at night, on NVGs, at low level, in poor weather, in a hostile EW environment and risk being shot at in the landing zone....well, I don't recall many of those skills being on a Commercial syllabus. I imagine for the P8 there is still a requirement to fly low level over water for various tasks, and to deal with a very complex weapon system (albeit with help). In short, conversion to type can be pretty straightforward, conversion to to role and achieving Combat Ready is an entirely different matter and where most of the expense is. However, if there were ex-Kipper fleet guys out there currently flying the 737-800 it might help to have a RAuxAF flight in the early stages to help build the available front end pool. My guess is that the pinch point is actually going to be with the highly specialised rear crew, only so many of which went on seed corn or remain in the RAF......
Flying an aircraft is relatively easy - operating a highly complex military aircraft in a variety of roles with advanced sensors, weapons, comms and, doubtless, different flight regimes is very difficult. To use Tourist's approach above, could a CPL(H) fly a Chinook? Absolutely, it's actually a very simple aircraft to fly (AFCS in....) and he/she could probably hover and fly a circuit in very few minutes. Now, take that CPL(H) and ask them to fly at night, on NVGs, at low level, in poor weather, in a hostile EW environment and risk being shot at in the landing zone....well, I don't recall many of those skills being on a Commercial syllabus. I imagine for the P8 there is still a requirement to fly low level over water for various tasks, and to deal with a very complex weapon system (albeit with help). In short, conversion to type can be pretty straightforward, conversion to to role and achieving Combat Ready is an entirely different matter and where most of the expense is. However, if there were ex-Kipper fleet guys out there currently flying the 737-800 it might help to have a RAuxAF flight in the early stages to help build the available front end pool. My guess is that the pinch point is actually going to be with the highly specialised rear crew, only so many of which went on seed corn or remain in the RAF......
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My guess is that the pinch point is actually going to be with the highly specialised rear crew, only so many of which went on seed corn or remain in the RAF......
...and live in the far north of Scotland of course!
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"Flying an aircraft is relatively easy - operating a highly complex military aircraft in a variety of roles with advanced sensors, weapons, comms and, doubtless, different flight regimes is very difficult."
Well the US National Guard manage it all the time................
Well the US National Guard manage it all the time................
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US National Guard do not fly for Ryanair.....
I'd love to see the discussion where you go to O'Leary and suggest that you deploy for 3 months every year.
Even BA and Virgin only give 2 weeks for reservists. Good luck remaining competent on 2 weeks a year
I'd love to see the discussion where you go to O'Leary and suggest that you deploy for 3 months every year.
Even BA and Virgin only give 2 weeks for reservists. Good luck remaining competent on 2 weeks a year
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And regarding your earlier comment, I wasn't proposing that the RAF take a commercial pilot and plop him on the flight deck of a P8. I was referring to the ex-RAF, current RAF VR, former fast jet/nimrod/c-130 pilots who work for the airlines flying the 737-800.
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Most of the FR drivers I know are VERY competent operators, but competency isn't going to be the issue here...
FR drivers are worked to FTL max as it is and get a month off so they can work within that limit. Negotiating an extension to those FTLs with the airlines would, I suspect, be very problematic and getting an extension to those FTLs through the legislative process with everybody commenting on fatigue.....probably easier to nail blancmange to the ceiling.
Nice thought though....
FR drivers are worked to FTL max as it is and get a month off so they can work within that limit. Negotiating an extension to those FTLs with the airlines would, I suspect, be very problematic and getting an extension to those FTLs through the legislative process with everybody commenting on fatigue.....probably easier to nail blancmange to the ceiling.
Nice thought though....
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BTW, FR aren't the only 737-800 operator out there you know! There are others where hitting FTL limits aren't such an issue, plus if you're flying an aircraft on the military register, does it count against your civilian FTLs?
does it count against your civilian FTLs?
Most definitely. I was flying VR on CXX at Kinloss as an AEOp late 80's /early 90's and Current Ops in BA were 'forward' calculating my trips and making allowances for time done at Kinloss. I seem to recall they only reckoned on a possible 80 hours per month that they could roster me. (not that they ever did!)
Most definitely. I was flying VR on CXX at Kinloss as an AEOp late 80's /early 90's and Current Ops in BA were 'forward' calculating my trips and making allowances for time done at Kinloss. I seem to recall they only reckoned on a possible 80 hours per month that they could roster me. (not that they ever did!)
Last edited by 5aday; 13th Jul 2016 at 18:58. Reason: Inserting VR
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IMO my 6000 hours on the B737-800 is very poor preparation for the military role that the aircraft will undertake ........ Anyhow why should I want to change, the pay is better, the crew in the back are easier on the eye, the crew food is passable and the worst detachment is likely to be a few days in a four star Malaga hotel.
Added to this there are no secondary duties and my family don't have to live in a mismanaged company slum.
The conclusion I come to is the RAF are likely to have a problem with P8 crews exiting to the airlines rather than a rush of airline pilots wanting to fly the P8.
Added to this there are no secondary duties and my family don't have to live in a mismanaged company slum.
The conclusion I come to is the RAF are likely to have a problem with P8 crews exiting to the airlines rather than a rush of airline pilots wanting to fly the P8.
A and C,
Your post is spot on IMHO
Your post is spot on IMHO
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" Added to this there are no secondary duties and my family don't have to live in a mismanaged company slum.
The conclusion I come to is the RAF are likely to have a problem with P8 crews exiting to the airlines rather than a rush of airline pilots wanting to fly the P8.
And at some point, it may also begin to dawn that the above will also apply to engineers.
The conclusion I come to is the RAF are likely to have a problem with P8 crews exiting to the airlines rather than a rush of airline pilots wanting to fly the P8.
And at some point, it may also begin to dawn that the above will also apply to engineers.