Agusta and Brexit

[dead_pan]

I've been trying to get some national press coverage of this, following John Ponsonby's less-than-reassuring comments to a local journo at the recent media event/roll-out.

Could anyone with an 'in' with anyone in the company who may want to speak about this (top team, unions etc) please PM me. Courtney? BEagle?

I did collar Lord Ashdown at an event on Monday and he confirmed that it likely be curtains if the ref goes the wrong way, and that the decision would be very quickly made.

This is a potential bomb-shell.

DP

[dead_pan]

Forgot to add: I did confront several Leave campaigners with this news at the weekend. The best I got was a look of "Oh sh**". The worst: "Don't care". GHT

[Tourist]

Explain?.........................

[Not_a_boffin]

I think he's trying to link Brexit with closure of the Leonardo plant at Yeovil. Although were I to look at the forward order book for that company now - irrespective of the referendum - I'd suggest that was inevitable anyway.

[BEagle]

I assume that dead_pan is referring to this article:

Leonardo-Finmeccanica to 'assess operations' in Yeovil in event of Brexit | Somerset Live

Perhaps you should ask the Western Gazette's reporter Stephen D'Albiac to forward his copy to the national press? Contact page is at Somerset Live | Contact Us .

Similar warnings have been made concerning the UK's car industry, particularly for BMW-Mini's Oxford site:
Brexit would create "uncertainties" for car manufacturing in UK, BMW boss warns (From Oxford Mail)

But the nation will decide, I guess....

[NutLoose]

I should imagine it would mean "Westlands" position would be tenuous.

As for the car industry I cannot forsee no deal being done, the likes of VW, BMW and Mercedes groups are hardly likely to lose one of their biggest markets and one would assume they would exert pressure on Merkle etc that would be huge.
Remember those groups include the likes of Audi, Seat, Skoda, etc, all major players in the UK markets. It could potentially cripple their output and the German economy to loose such a major market.... It will never be allowed to happen, no matter what scare tactics are used. The other thing about Mini and one of its main selling points, just as with RR is they are seen across the world as a quintessential British made product, even though it no longer is.
Rather like Bernard Matthews Norfolk turkeys, they can call them that because the eggs are laid in Norfolk, the fact they are then shipped and raised in Romania has nothing to do with it., the same goes for a RR, the engine etc comes from Germany or was at least designed there I believe.


.

[Arclite01]

Wonder how many houses they'll fit on that airfield................

Arc

[t43562]

As for the car industry I cannot forsee no deal being done, the likes of VW, BMW and Mercedes groups are hardly likely to lose one of their biggest markets and one would assume they would exert pressure on Merkle etc that would be huge.

What has manufacturing got to do with markets? I'm sure they'll continue selling here but what has that got to do with where they are made? (or what duties are paid)

[Tourist]

Considering how Westlands have treated the RN over the years, I couldn't give a monkeys either way.

World class design team.
Utter tw@ts in their customer screwing over team.

[BEagle]

As for the car industry I cannot forsee no deal being done, the likes of VW, BMW and Mercedes groups are hardly likely to lose one of their biggest markets and one would assume they would exert pressure on Merkle etc that would be huge.

But there is obviously no guarantee that this would or would not happen, if the UK's position in Europe changed....

Whereas if the UK's position doesn't change, clearly no such guesswork is needed...

Vote with care....

[dead_pan]

t43562/BEagle

I've been tirelessly making that point to anyone who'll listen (including Julia Hartley-Brewer on TalkRadio). They seem either to wilfully miss the point, or gloss it over with the usual "don't worry it'll all be fine" BS (JH-B being a case in point),

[dead_pan]

Luckily some MPs I've collared got the point and are going to incorporate it in their armoury...

[Tourist]

Whilst the loss of a strategic industry is obviously not ideal, in terms of short term capability and price it might be nice to just buy off the shelf toys next time without worrying about saving British jobs.

[BEagle]

dead_pan', love him or loathe him, Jeremy Clarkson made a fair point about EU membership in the Sunday Times:

'Isn't it better to stay in and try to make the damn thing work properly?'

Obviously that could only be achieved if the UK remained a part of the EU.

Think before you vote!

Although I've just spent the best part of a day working on EASA regulatory change proposals, so sympathise with DC's occasional frustration with Brussels €urocracy. We've been waiting 3 years for simple changes to the Aircrew Regulation, whilst EASA moves with the speed of a handicapped glacier*!



* another of my quotes which some journo (or Clarkson) will probably nick!

[dead_pan]

BEagle - tell me about it. Clarkson's point is another I've too have been banging on about.

BTW from recollection he's the sort of same neck of the woods as you? Me too - not a great place to be ATM...

[MAINJAFAD]

Whilst the loss of a strategic industry is obviously not ideal, in terms of short term capability and price it might be nice to just buy off the shelf toys next time without worrying about saving British jobs.

A very stupid and short sighted remark. If the industry dies we will never get it back There is also the cost issue to UK PLC overall. Yes a piece of kit will cost a lot more if made in the UK that it would if bought off the shelf from the USA or anywhere else. The main cause of this is the main cost of any design and manufacturing process. Manpower!!! The UK costs are inflated by a number of issues mainly driven by tax. What this however does is recycle a large amount of money back into HM Treasury either by the direct taxation (PAYE, NI payments and Corporation Tax) from the workers and indirect taxation on most things that the staff spend their money on and the direct taxation on the people and companies that provide those services. The most likely total costs that actually leave the UK would be the costs of materials / components not produced in the UK and any royalties on licencing which at most would be 30% of the total spend.

[Tourist]

Originally Posted by MAINJAFAD

A very stupid and short sighted remark. If the industry dies we will never get it back There is also the cost issue to UK PLC overall. Yes a piece of kit will cost a lot more if made in the UK that it would if bought off the shelf from the USA or anywhere else. The main cause of this is the main cost of any design and manufacturing process. Manpower!!! The UK costs are inflated by a number of issues mainly driven by tax. What this however does is recycle a large amount of money back into HM Treasury either by the direct taxation (PAYE, NI payments and Corporation Tax) from the workers and indirect taxation on most things that the staff spend their money on and the direct taxation on the people and companies that provide those services. The most likely total costs that actually leave the UK would be the costs of materials / components not produced in the UK and any royalties on licencing which at most would be 30% of the total spend.

Yes, I get all that, and thanks for the insult.

My point, which I thought I made quite clearly but obviously not, was that if we didn't have to worry about UK industry we would often have cheaper/better kit like many smaller nations around us do.

F15/F16/F18/F22? instead of Tornado/Typhoon
Arleigh Burke many years ago instead of T45 now.
P8 instead of Nimrod.......oh, wait...

Apache for half the price.

The simple fact is that even with the taxation of UK industry, you cannot pretend that we get value for money by any stretch of the imagination with our toys.

[Evalu8ter]

I would suggest that BrExit would merely be a convenient scapegoat if we voted Leave. Leonardo seems to be repositioning its assets, wherever possible, back in Italy (which should come as no surprise as the Italian govt is a major shareholder). If the UK MoD is not the sort of customer that is going to order another 30 Merlins or 40 Wildcats, and seems certain to go to the OEM for Apache this time, then why should they keep a plant in the UK open? Merlins and AW139/49/68/89 can all be built in Italy or the US, the A609 is nowhere near Yeovil. The only platform solely built in the UK is, I think, Wildcat which is only getting a handful of orders. Maybe post Apache some MoD "sweeteners" will be forthcoming (taking the Option on the other Wildcats to replace Lx 9A / Gaz perhaps) or, perhaps, there will be a double header in Tory nightmares; a massive split over Europe and a revisiting of the Westland crisis. Only this time, selling to the US would probably be a good thing.

Tourist - I agree; the designers I know at AW are amongst the best in the world. Every time we've given them an aircraft they've improved the breed. The problems are with some very short sighted marketing people and some poor choices of workshare to keep / develop certain technologies in Italy.

[Genstabler]

What a pessimistic bunch of losers! Brexit means leaving the EU, not Europe. It also means retaining our national sovereignty, with everything that entails. As for Clarksons splendid notion of reforming Europe from the inside, cobblers. In its current state it is unreformable. Look at the reception Cameron got. If we leave the EU, which I hope to God we do, nothing will change for a couple of years. There will be a good deal of smoke and bluster and we will then continue afloat while the EU continues to disintegrate as an undemocratic political superstate. If and when it returns to a common market, it may rise again from the ashes. In the meantime, just watch as a number of other reluctant members follow our lead.

[Tourist]

Originally Posted by Genstabler

In the meantime, just watch as a number of other reluctant members follow our lead.

I could go either way on whether we should, but I must admit that I agree that if we left we might be the first of many.

That would probably be the ideal outcome for the UK.

Leave, and then get together with the more similar countries once it all breaks uk.

UK, Germany, and the Northern countries. Essentially any country that knows how to queue.