MFTS RW
Thread Starter
MFTS RW
I have heard several rumours over the last week that Airbus have won the contract to supply the rotary for MFTS RW. The fleet will consist of EC135 only, if true is this a good or bad thing ?
Thought the Airbus offering included H15 as well or combo of H130/H135 or H130/H145 to include single engined training.
If what you have heard is true then can see we following the Germans, now the Us Army and Australians amongst others in such as Switzerland and Kiwis in taking the stude from single engined elementary / basic straight to multi engined trainer.
Laughingly the new platform may look the same colours as the ADF HATS trainer
https://www.airbushelicopters.com/we...0air_1653.html
(photo courtesy of Airbus Helicopters)
Cheers
If what you have heard is true then can see we following the Germans, now the Us Army and Australians amongst others in such as Switzerland and Kiwis in taking the stude from single engined elementary / basic straight to multi engined trainer.
Laughingly the new platform may look the same colours as the ADF HATS trainer
https://www.airbushelicopters.com/we...0air_1653.html
(photo courtesy of Airbus Helicopters)
Cheers
Last edited by chopper2004; 20th Mar 2016 at 09:27.
What would be interesting is to see how the requirements for rear-crew training figured in the decision to select the 135? It looks like another ac that will have 50% of the crew operating on their knees or equally awkward position.
Guest
Posts: n/a
NAO report into flying training
The history of this makes interesting reading. The above often quoted report for starting MFTS but actually doesn't say any such thing. Indeed the paragraph on contractorisation says:
Some of the weaknesses evident in setting targets also show through in other initiatives. The Agency have pursued a variety of site rationalisation and contractorisation projects with mixed results. Weaknesses in specification of services and contract monitoring and enforcement have cost the Department output and money. And similar weaknesses in planning have meant that the implications of site rationalisation were not fully understood, with the result that fewer sites have been sold than planned, and some initially closed have had to be re-opened. Overall, however, contractorisation and rationalisation have contributed towards improved efficiency, if not on the scale originally envisaged.
Not a resounding endorsement of contractorisation.
The latest NAO report makes for a depressing read too. Fortunately the RW project is part of a mature process within the contractor.
NAO 2015 update
On the subject of rear crew training and cabin height, name me a helicopter under 5 tonne which does have a standing cabin! Something heavier is not going to be cost effective for pilot training.
The history of this makes interesting reading. The above often quoted report for starting MFTS but actually doesn't say any such thing. Indeed the paragraph on contractorisation says:
Some of the weaknesses evident in setting targets also show through in other initiatives. The Agency have pursued a variety of site rationalisation and contractorisation projects with mixed results. Weaknesses in specification of services and contract monitoring and enforcement have cost the Department output and money. And similar weaknesses in planning have meant that the implications of site rationalisation were not fully understood, with the result that fewer sites have been sold than planned, and some initially closed have had to be re-opened. Overall, however, contractorisation and rationalisation have contributed towards improved efficiency, if not on the scale originally envisaged.
Not a resounding endorsement of contractorisation.
The latest NAO report makes for a depressing read too. Fortunately the RW project is part of a mature process within the contractor.
NAO 2015 update
On the subject of rear crew training and cabin height, name me a helicopter under 5 tonne which does have a standing cabin! Something heavier is not going to be cost effective for pilot training.
Last edited by GipsyMagpie; 21st Mar 2016 at 09:24.
The fleet will consist of EC135 only, if true is this a good or bad thing ?
Laughingly the new platform may look the same colours as the ADF HATS trainer
Hmm DL Helikopter 135 contracted to the Bundeswher, for the Marineflieger for multi engine training- does do winching exercise as this vid shows @1:31
Plus plenty of H135 airframes across Europe do winch rescue, hoist training etc etc with the likes of Austrian OAMTC, Aiut Alpin Dolomites , Bundespolizei , SAMU , Gendamarie
cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfFYNymAtvU
Plus plenty of H135 airframes across Europe do winch rescue, hoist training etc etc with the likes of Austrian OAMTC, Aiut Alpin Dolomites , Bundespolizei , SAMU , Gendamarie
cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfFYNymAtvU
Thread Starter
Regarding the post about single engine training. With the Gazelle being the only single engine rotary left in the British Armed Forces do we need a single engine trainer. By doing away with this they can cut the need for Engine Oof Landings (EOL's) which seem to take up a lot of time and effort.
Gazelle is also the only one that still has skids, so why aren't we getting something with wheels? And you will still have to learn EOLs to prepare frontline crews for mandatory emergency currencies which require EOLs, such as double/triple engine failures, tail rotor problems, transmission failures...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Gazelle is also the only one that still has skids, so why aren't we getting something with wheels? And you will still have to learn EOLs to prepare frontline crews for mandatory emergency currencies which require EOLs, such as double/triple engine failures, tail rotor problems, transmission failures...
Gentleman Aviator
But there is nothing like the confidence builder of a "real" EOL. A great pity IMHO that when we (the RAF) changed from Whirlwind to Gaz on basic we stopped doing solo stude EOLs ...... 
Too true - I learnt more in those 30mins solo, both in confidence and incident report filling! However, I will also say the ability to carry out an EOL in the real world will always help if it comes to the real thing in a twin (or triple) when the only practice has been done in a simulator - again speaking after having a double engine failure.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In the Radio Bay
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sim? What sim?
Agree on the skids front but EOL can be done in the sim which is of course how front line types practice it. Having gone back to real EOL after being of heavy heli for 9 years it really is an eye opener. But using the latest training design terminology, (Difficulty, importance, frequency) and EOL is quite important and difficult but so infrequently required, the training requirement is going to put in the sim.
Hmm DL Helikopter 135 contracted to the Bundeswher, for the Marineflieger for multi engine training- does do winching exercise as this vid shows @1:31
Plus plenty of H135 airframes across Europe do winch rescue, hoist training etc etc with the likes of Austrian OAMTC, Aiut Alpin Dolomites , Bundespolizei , SAMU , Gendamarie
Plus plenty of H135 airframes across Europe do winch rescue, hoist training etc etc with the likes of Austrian OAMTC, Aiut Alpin Dolomites , Bundespolizei , SAMU , Gendamarie
Heya Torque
020
Characteristics
PASSENGER TRANSPORTATION
Police / Utility / Offshore
VIP
Hermes
Pilots
Passengers
Pilots
Passengers
Pilots
Passengers
1
6/7
1
5/6
1 5
2
5/6
2
4/5
2 4
EMS / Disaster Management
Pilots
Patients
Crew
1 1
up to 4
1 2
up to 3
2 1
up to 3
2 2
up to 2
DIMENSIONS
Length (rotor rotating)
12.26 m
40.2 ft
Fuselage length
10.20 m
33.5 ft
Height
3.51 m
11.5 ft
Width (without blades)
3.16 m
10.4 ft
Main rotor diameter
10.40 m
34.1 ft
Main rotor ground clearance
2.4 m
7.9 ft
WEIGHT
Maximum takeoff weight
6,570 lb
2,980 kg
Empty weight, standard configuration
3,267 lb
1,482 kg
Useful load, standard configuration
3,126 lb
1,418 kg
Maximum cargo-sling load
2,646 lb
1,200 kg
Standard fuel capacity
1,235 lb
560 kg
ENGINE
2 turboshaft engines
Turbomeca Arrius 2B2
plus
or
Pratt & Whitney PW206B3
Cat. A VTOL, SL
2,980 kg / 6,570 lb
ALT limited for Cat. A operations
Clear heliport
12,000 ft DA or PA / 3,655 m DA or PA
Restricted or elevated heliport 8,000 ft DA or PA / 2,435 m DA or PA
AT SL, ISA, Max. gross weight
Maximum speed (VNE)
140 kts
259 km/h
Fast cruise speed
136 kts
252 km/h
OEI Rate of climb (65KIAS), MCP
400 ft/min
2 m/s
Hover ceiling IGE ISA +20
13,300 ft
4,054 m
Hover ceiling OGE ISA +20
8,200 ft
2,499 m
Maximum range at recommended cruise speed
(without fuel reserve)
330 NM
611 km
OPERATION LIMITATIONS
Maximum operating altitude
20,000 ft
6,095 m
Minimum temperature
-31°F
- 35°C
Maximum temperature
limited to + 50°C / 122°F
ISA + 39°C / 102.2°F
At the end of the day if it has been chosen for Ascent then good on the next gen of RW crews for across our armed forces. The German Bundeswehr and Swiss Air Force. use it as a trainer though the German system is predominantly sims (both PC and proper 4 x axis ) before the successful candidate goes onto 135.
cheers
020
Characteristics
PASSENGER TRANSPORTATION
Police / Utility / Offshore
VIP
Hermes
Pilots
Passengers
Pilots
Passengers
Pilots
Passengers
1
6/7
1
5/6
1 5
2
5/6
2
4/5
2 4
EMS / Disaster Management
Pilots
Patients
Crew
1 1
up to 4
1 2
up to 3
2 1
up to 3
2 2
up to 2
DIMENSIONS
Length (rotor rotating)
12.26 m
40.2 ft
Fuselage length
10.20 m
33.5 ft
Height
3.51 m
11.5 ft
Width (without blades)
3.16 m
10.4 ft
Main rotor diameter
10.40 m
34.1 ft
Main rotor ground clearance
2.4 m
7.9 ft
WEIGHT
Maximum takeoff weight
6,570 lb
2,980 kg
Empty weight, standard configuration
3,267 lb
1,482 kg
Useful load, standard configuration
3,126 lb
1,418 kg
Maximum cargo-sling load
2,646 lb
1,200 kg
Standard fuel capacity
1,235 lb
560 kg
ENGINE
2 turboshaft engines
Turbomeca Arrius 2B2
plus
or
Pratt & Whitney PW206B3
Cat. A VTOL, SL
2,980 kg / 6,570 lb
ALT limited for Cat. A operations
Clear heliport
12,000 ft DA or PA / 3,655 m DA or PA
Restricted or elevated heliport 8,000 ft DA or PA / 2,435 m DA or PA
AT SL, ISA, Max. gross weight
Maximum speed (VNE)
140 kts
259 km/h
Fast cruise speed
136 kts
252 km/h
OEI Rate of climb (65KIAS), MCP
400 ft/min
2 m/s
Hover ceiling IGE ISA +20
13,300 ft
4,054 m
Hover ceiling OGE ISA +20
8,200 ft
2,499 m
Maximum range at recommended cruise speed
(without fuel reserve)
330 NM
611 km
OPERATION LIMITATIONS
Maximum operating altitude
20,000 ft
6,095 m
Minimum temperature
-31°F
- 35°C
Maximum temperature
limited to + 50°C / 122°F
ISA + 39°C / 102.2°F
At the end of the day if it has been chosen for Ascent then good on the next gen of RW crews for across our armed forces. The German Bundeswehr and Swiss Air Force. use it as a trainer though the German system is predominantly sims (both PC and proper 4 x axis ) before the successful candidate goes onto 135.
cheers
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But can the H135 do winch training with 6 POB (2 pilots, 2 rear-crew instructors and 2 rear-crew students) with at least two of them sitting side by side in the door frame?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
EESDL, they are stripped bare for that role, the crew have max weight limits as well........... I can't meet the weight