Ten worst British Aircraft.
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Listening to a few guys who had the misfortune to fly it ... that underpowered 'slab sided' monstrosity the Percival P.40 Prentice must surely be another contender.
Lomcovák, I nearly managed a trip in a CF-101 at Chatham, but lost the toss to the Nav Plotter ('Animal'...). Just as well as I had a vile hangover.
The burners on the CF-101 lit with a heck of a bang, nothing like the gentle light up of the F-4. On Canadian winter runways, if the burners lit asymmetrically, a serious of interesting swings across the runway could result.
We did some 'fighter affil' with the CF-101 when flying in from Goose once; after they did their dashed ungentlemanly BVR simulated Genie launch (for younger readers, the Genie was an unguided air-to-air nuclear-tipped rocket with a 1.5 kiloton warhead...
), we merged for some playtime. One of the CF-101s was carrying a tape recorder - as they charged around at 550-ish KIAS in a huge turn avoiding pitch up, I pulled up, overbanked, spotted them and reversed to tuck in behind and above inside their turn, the conversation went something like:
Pilot "Dammit, lost tally!"
RIO "Where'd he go?"
Pilot "Who?"
RIO "The goddam Vulcan....sheehit, he's tracking us! How didya let something that big get behind us?"
Vulcan "Errm, Fox 2 chaps!"
If only we'd had an AIM-9 or two! So they bought the Moosehead and the evening went steadily downhill.
Anyway, back to the thread - I note from his excellent book A Passion For Flying that Tom Eeles has the same opinion of the Jetstream as I do!
The burners on the CF-101 lit with a heck of a bang, nothing like the gentle light up of the F-4. On Canadian winter runways, if the burners lit asymmetrically, a serious of interesting swings across the runway could result.
We did some 'fighter affil' with the CF-101 when flying in from Goose once; after they did their dashed ungentlemanly BVR simulated Genie launch (for younger readers, the Genie was an unguided air-to-air nuclear-tipped rocket with a 1.5 kiloton warhead...
), we merged for some playtime. One of the CF-101s was carrying a tape recorder - as they charged around at 550-ish KIAS in a huge turn avoiding pitch up, I pulled up, overbanked, spotted them and reversed to tuck in behind and above inside their turn, the conversation went something like:Pilot "Dammit, lost tally!"
RIO "Where'd he go?"
Pilot "Who?"
RIO "The goddam Vulcan....sheehit, he's tracking us! How didya let something that big get behind us?"
Vulcan "Errm, Fox 2 chaps!"
If only we'd had an AIM-9 or two! So they bought the Moosehead and the evening went steadily downhill.
Anyway, back to the thread - I note from his excellent book A Passion For Flying that Tom Eeles has the same opinion of the Jetstream as I do!
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Ten worst British aircraft ........
This was a totally disgusting and unnecessary comment regarding the Scimitar:
"Prior to this, ensure one example crashes and kills its first Commanding Officer, infront of the press"
"Prior to this, ensure one example crashes and kills its first Commanding Officer, infront of the press"
Last edited by greywings; 3rd Mar 2016 at 15:15. Reason: clarification
Meteor
Perhaps contentious, but I expected to see the Meteor on the list. Designed with engines mounted further outboard than would seem to make sense (other than prop clearance norms) it caused more RAF casualties than the ME262 and ME110 put together. A good performer for its time, but at an unacceptable cost.
KB
KB
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Lomcevak,
You are right; my memory isn't what it used to be. We did get frequent reheat and throt warnings, but probably because we were slamming the throts during ACT; in other words, mishandling them in the mistaken belief that we were flying a fighter!
You are right; my memory isn't what it used to be. We did get frequent reheat and throt warnings, but probably because we were slamming the throts during ACT; in other words, mishandling them in the mistaken belief that we were flying a fighter!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Seems that Blackburn produced quite a few turkeys including the Buccanner. New engines and new bomb bay by Hawker Siddley improved it.
It would be nice to think that those decrying the Bev actually had some operating experience with it ... and the intended Mk2, with Tynes would have made the Fat Alberts look somewhat pedestrian.
Oddly missed two well qualified contenders - Miles Marathon and the, almost unbelievably bad, Attacker!!!
Oddly missed two well qualified contenders - Miles Marathon and the, almost unbelievably bad, Attacker!!!
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I'm sorry to see the Javelin slated so hard. I know it had its faults, and many, many Marks to make it better, but ... Decent legs, great weapon load, ideal for policing the borders of the Empire.
@ BEagle ... similar tales after a 'no limits' ULL exercise in OZ involving Vulcans and 74's Lightning 6s [and other players]. ISTR that Vulcans saying "Dagga Dagga Dagga" featured in the RT exchanges
@ BEagle ... similar tales after a 'no limits' ULL exercise in OZ involving Vulcans and 74's Lightning 6s [and other players]. ISTR that Vulcans saying "Dagga Dagga Dagga" featured in the RT exchanges
Last edited by MPN11; 4th Mar 2016 at 08:50.
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The worst
A long time ago I used to share the odd beer with a retired RAF pilot in the Sun at Cottesmore. He said that early in the war he was engaged for some months in flying Blackburn Bothas direct from the factory to the scrapyard. It seems the cost of cancelling the contract made it cheaper to have the aircraft built
I managed to find him a copy of the pilots notes in the Farnborough archives, he was really amused.
He said even on minimum fuel the Botha could not maintain height on one engine and there was no rudder trim to balance an engine loss. Flight instruments required both generators to be operable and the landing lamps would not illuminate the ground even from taxi height
No a good buy
I managed to find him a copy of the pilots notes in the Farnborough archives, he was really amused.
He said even on minimum fuel the Botha could not maintain height on one engine and there was no rudder trim to balance an engine loss. Flight instruments required both generators to be operable and the landing lamps would not illuminate the ground even from taxi height
No a good buy
re the Botha.
Hugh Bergel, an ATA pilot, in his book "Fly and Deliver" says --- " On the way to his seat the pilot passed a board covered with taps and dials which controlled a peculiar fuel system. It was not difficult to set these taps so that all fuel tanks were turned OFF. Alas, this in no way stopped the pilot [ who was then out of reach and sight of this panel ] from starting, warming and running up the engines, taxiing out and taking off. But eleven minutes further on a little collector tank, which had no taps or gauge, and which fed both engines, would run dry and both engines stopped at once. Some pilots survived this."
It does make one wonder about the Blackburn designers and test pilots.
Hugh Bergel, an ATA pilot, in his book "Fly and Deliver" says --- " On the way to his seat the pilot passed a board covered with taps and dials which controlled a peculiar fuel system. It was not difficult to set these taps so that all fuel tanks were turned OFF. Alas, this in no way stopped the pilot [ who was then out of reach and sight of this panel ] from starting, warming and running up the engines, taxiing out and taking off. But eleven minutes further on a little collector tank, which had no taps or gauge, and which fed both engines, would run dry and both engines stopped at once. Some pilots survived this."
It does make one wonder about the Blackburn designers and test pilots.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The aircraft manufacturers also seemed to be head in clouds, or the Ministry of Supply.
Bristol Frightener to the Type 188 - logical
Saunders-Roe Princess to the SR53
At least Short were consistent, Sterling, Speed on, Belslow, Skyvan
and English Electric with Canberra, Lightning, TSR 2 didn't put a foot wrong
Bristol Frightener to the Type 188 - logical
Saunders-Roe Princess to the SR53
At least Short were consistent, Sterling, Speed on, Belslow, Skyvan
and English Electric with Canberra, Lightning, TSR 2 didn't put a foot wrong
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Pontius,
I'll have to gently speak up on behalf of Blackburns.
The Buccaneer was an amazing achievement in terms of aerodynamics, controls, structural design, and weapons bay design. For Blackburns to achieve what they did with little or no fast jet experience was, in my view (and that's all it is, of course) quite an exceptional feat.
Declaration here - I spent two happy years at Brough in the late 80s and got to know Roy Boot and others who were involved in the aircraft.
The S1 was crippled by the low power output of the Gyron Juniors, which were supplied by the Government. By the time they arrived they delivered around 55% of the promised thrust, and putting this engine into the aircraft, with its extra demands for BLC, was a recipe for trouble. And the S1 was big trouble.
However, it was Blackburns who took the initiative and started designing the S2 around the Spey before the S1 even flew. The design effort of the Buccaneer stayed at Brough after the merger into HS, and the S2 was an all Brough design.
The bomb bay fuel tank was another Brough design - it grew out of an earlier concept for carrying four more 1000 pounders on the outside of the bomb door, semi recessed into a large fairing that also contained fuel. The shape adopted for the S2B was essentially the same as that developed by Brough. Conformal weapons carriage in the mid 60s.
For my part, the list of the 'ten worst' should be driven by high cost to the taxpayer and getting into operational service in numbers while being wholly inadequate. On that basis, I propose the Blenheim. I also think that the Tornado F2 is a shoo-in for 'just about the worst ever'.
Best Regards as ever to those trying to do the right thing,
Engines
I'll have to gently speak up on behalf of Blackburns.
The Buccaneer was an amazing achievement in terms of aerodynamics, controls, structural design, and weapons bay design. For Blackburns to achieve what they did with little or no fast jet experience was, in my view (and that's all it is, of course) quite an exceptional feat.
Declaration here - I spent two happy years at Brough in the late 80s and got to know Roy Boot and others who were involved in the aircraft.
The S1 was crippled by the low power output of the Gyron Juniors, which were supplied by the Government. By the time they arrived they delivered around 55% of the promised thrust, and putting this engine into the aircraft, with its extra demands for BLC, was a recipe for trouble. And the S1 was big trouble.
However, it was Blackburns who took the initiative and started designing the S2 around the Spey before the S1 even flew. The design effort of the Buccaneer stayed at Brough after the merger into HS, and the S2 was an all Brough design.
The bomb bay fuel tank was another Brough design - it grew out of an earlier concept for carrying four more 1000 pounders on the outside of the bomb door, semi recessed into a large fairing that also contained fuel. The shape adopted for the S2B was essentially the same as that developed by Brough. Conformal weapons carriage in the mid 60s.
For my part, the list of the 'ten worst' should be driven by high cost to the taxpayer and getting into operational service in numbers while being wholly inadequate. On that basis, I propose the Blenheim. I also think that the Tornado F2 is a shoo-in for 'just about the worst ever'.
Best Regards as ever to those trying to do the right thing,
Engines
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Engines, only playing devils advocate. The mismatch between engines and airframe was often the fault of Ministry rather than manufacturer.
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Disagree entirely. The Jetstream T Mk 1 was a very, very good multi engine trainer platform, especially in view of its assymmetric handling qualities.
What was wrong was that the METS/MEXO/MER courses were skewed towards Truckie operations ather than being generic ME courses that would suit multiple end games.
What was wrong was that the METS/MEXO/MER courses were skewed towards Truckie operations ather than being generic ME courses that would suit multiple end games.
