Retired Military Officers and Politics
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Retired Military Officers and Politics
A recent letter to the Daily Telegraph signed off by a number of retired senior officers extolled the security related virtues of remaining in the EU. The next day's Telegraph suggested that at least one of the officers was uneasy about signing the letter, but "felt compelled to do so" because the letter was a had come from 10 Downing Street - "fait accompli". I find this rumour hard to believe. Any thoughts?
sounds like crap to me...
i've never heard tell of any retired grandee who kept his gob shut - or opened it - according to the pleasures and whims of the MOD et al.
they broadly fell into two spheres - gobbing off at any opportunity about how ignorant/reckless any government, including ones they had served, or going away quietly and spending more time with the significant salary they earnt from defence contractors.
i've never heard tell of any retired grandee who kept his gob shut - or opened it - according to the pleasures and whims of the MOD et al.
they broadly fell into two spheres - gobbing off at any opportunity about how ignorant/reckless any government, including ones they had served, or going away quietly and spending more time with the significant salary they earnt from defence contractors.
I have the absolutely no respect for retired Military Officers expressing any opinions (on their former profession) once they left office. If you are a man of honor state your displeasure while you serve (and quite of the privileges along the way) or keep your mouth shut.
Obviously that goes for my country (NATO member) and I have plenty of examples to back it up.
Obviously that goes for my country (NATO member) and I have plenty of examples to back it up.
Rwy in Sight,
I do take your point, although there are plenty of retired mitral officers here who do just that, myself included.
The problem with retired Very Senior Officers wading in and expressing opinions is that they often run the risk of undermining the efforts of serving VSOs, who may well be silent on a subject for very good reason. Those reasons may sometimes be a reluctance to stick their heads over the parapet, but may also be for far more valid reasons.
That said, in this case former mil leaders may have something to add to the debate. If minor celebs (most of whom we've never even heard of) can spout about leaving the EU with no subject knowledge at all, a few guys with bags of experience in Defence and Security can probably offer some words that are actually based in fact rather than gushing the odd one liner they picked up from a bloke down the pub, The Sun or a gross fabrication, which is what so much of the propaganda is based on at the moment.
I'm looking for someone to start talking facts in the whole debate, so some actual experts speaking out is probably OK.
I do take your point, although there are plenty of retired mitral officers here who do just that, myself included.
The problem with retired Very Senior Officers wading in and expressing opinions is that they often run the risk of undermining the efforts of serving VSOs, who may well be silent on a subject for very good reason. Those reasons may sometimes be a reluctance to stick their heads over the parapet, but may also be for far more valid reasons.
That said, in this case former mil leaders may have something to add to the debate. If minor celebs (most of whom we've never even heard of) can spout about leaving the EU with no subject knowledge at all, a few guys with bags of experience in Defence and Security can probably offer some words that are actually based in fact rather than gushing the odd one liner they picked up from a bloke down the pub, The Sun or a gross fabrication, which is what so much of the propaganda is based on at the moment.
I'm looking for someone to start talking facts in the whole debate, so some actual experts speaking out is probably OK.
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Pretty frequent now though isn't it?
Reading letters from retired officers (in the printed press) who back a particular political point, or politician - it makes me nervous because of the connotation ..that that may be speaking a particular line that could be accepted by the reading public as what servicemen/woman think or want.
Seeing politicians posing with the military I don't like to see at all, anyway. Because its all about them, always is. You never seem to see them with the injured, the scarred.
Seeing politicians in the press (especially the TV media) posing alongside serving RAF officers, with their or rather with our aircraft, and with BAE as a background (a private company with the scruples of an alley rat)....that makes me think who has been bought by whom.
Had to get that off my chest.
Reading letters from retired officers (in the printed press) who back a particular political point, or politician - it makes me nervous because of the connotation ..that that may be speaking a particular line that could be accepted by the reading public as what servicemen/woman think or want.
Seeing politicians posing with the military I don't like to see at all, anyway. Because its all about them, always is. You never seem to see them with the injured, the scarred.
Seeing politicians in the press (especially the TV media) posing alongside serving RAF officers, with their or rather with our aircraft, and with BAE as a background (a private company with the scruples of an alley rat)....that makes me think who has been bought by whom.
Had to get that off my chest.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
One may remember Chapman Pincher and the Daily Express being essential breakfast reading if we wanted to keep abreast of military affairs in contrast with Teddy Donaldson in the Telegraph. Their information may well have been gleand from conversations in the RAF Club bar.
I think many retired VSO will remain in touch with current VSO and who knows but they may be representing the current VSOs views.
I think many retired VSO will remain in touch with current VSO and who knows but they may be representing the current VSOs views.
I do take your point, although there are plenty of retired mitral officers here who do just that, myself included. - Courtney
I always knew you had a heart.....
Jack
I always knew you had a heart.....
Jack
I believe that those who signed this letter did so either in gratitude of past ennoblement or in anticipation of future awards. It's already rumoured that Cameron is offering Lordships to people who will support his campaign. It's an unfortunate fact that many in the civilian population will believe that these VSO represent the thinking of the whole of our military establishment, which could well be far from the case. It's sad that these people are allowing themselves to become political fodder in their grasping at further honours etc. For me I see people who have one vote, as I do, they should not abuse their status to distort fact.
Smudge
Smudge
Don't know why they bother. 95% of the population don't know who they are/were and probably don't care anyway. Besides, considering some of their questionable decisions over recent years, their opinion probably doesn't count for much anyway.
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Retired Senior Officers and Politics
An interesting range of opinions above.
My view on security and the EU is exactly the opposite of that expressed by the Senior Officers. It is my opinion that rather than increase our security, the EU, as it is currently organised, is a positive risk to the security of the UK. It was the EU's brash intervention in the problematic Ukraine that fanned the flames of conflict there. The EU handling of the Yugoslavian crisis in 1991/2 was worse than pathetic and our US allies had to come in and sort the mess out. Europe's very limited (and mistaken in my view) air intervention in Libya was an embarrassment due to lack of European air assets (tanker and reconnaissance capabilities) and a quickly depleted inventory of smart weapons. Worse, we had no post action plan, (zero lessons learned from Gulf Wars 1 and 2).
When the EU tore down its internal borders it failed to bolster its external borders to ensure the security of the Union. This has allowed large numbers of refugees, asylum seekers and fellow travellers from the Middle east and Africa to gain entry into Europe. The problem has been made worse by the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, unilaterally opening Germany's borders to the refugees without discussing it with its fellow countries. This has led to severe internal problems for many of the European countries. Now, the EU is trying to make the problem exclusively Greek by creating a new EU border on the Greek Macedonian border leaving Greece hung out to dry. So much for European solidarity! More recently, we have been told in today's press that thousands of the "refugees" that Chancellor Merkel welcomed with open arms have disappeared off the radar. Worse, it would seem that some of those missing may have links to the terrorists that carried out the attacks in Paris.
I, along with most other people in the country, rely upon the press and TV for information. I assume our senior officers have better sources. But looking at the EU's current policies and its past and current performance in crisis management, I have come to the opinion that if bad things are going to happen, you can almost bet that Europe will either be the cause, or at best a hindrance to those trying to sort matters out.
My view on security and the EU is exactly the opposite of that expressed by the Senior Officers. It is my opinion that rather than increase our security, the EU, as it is currently organised, is a positive risk to the security of the UK. It was the EU's brash intervention in the problematic Ukraine that fanned the flames of conflict there. The EU handling of the Yugoslavian crisis in 1991/2 was worse than pathetic and our US allies had to come in and sort the mess out. Europe's very limited (and mistaken in my view) air intervention in Libya was an embarrassment due to lack of European air assets (tanker and reconnaissance capabilities) and a quickly depleted inventory of smart weapons. Worse, we had no post action plan, (zero lessons learned from Gulf Wars 1 and 2).
When the EU tore down its internal borders it failed to bolster its external borders to ensure the security of the Union. This has allowed large numbers of refugees, asylum seekers and fellow travellers from the Middle east and Africa to gain entry into Europe. The problem has been made worse by the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, unilaterally opening Germany's borders to the refugees without discussing it with its fellow countries. This has led to severe internal problems for many of the European countries. Now, the EU is trying to make the problem exclusively Greek by creating a new EU border on the Greek Macedonian border leaving Greece hung out to dry. So much for European solidarity! More recently, we have been told in today's press that thousands of the "refugees" that Chancellor Merkel welcomed with open arms have disappeared off the radar. Worse, it would seem that some of those missing may have links to the terrorists that carried out the attacks in Paris.
I, along with most other people in the country, rely upon the press and TV for information. I assume our senior officers have better sources. But looking at the EU's current policies and its past and current performance in crisis management, I have come to the opinion that if bad things are going to happen, you can almost bet that Europe will either be the cause, or at best a hindrance to those trying to sort matters out.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Cameron is indeed right that only Putin (and many of us) would be happy for us to be out of the EU because the EU would be weaker without us, not because we would be weaker without the EU.
