Belfast

[dragartist]

On the BBC news last night, covering the Bombardier redundancy story there was B&W footage showing several frames under construction at Shorts. SWMBO was nattering so I did not take in the detail.
I also have one of the Loading data sheets we used to prepare at JATE.(long before my time there but like VX I try my best to preserve history from the skip. These were printed in colour on high quality paper.
Drag

[CoffmanStarter]

Good evening Drag ...

When I posted the URL of an earlier thread on the Belfast I wondered if you might have had a 'hand' in there somewhere

Hope you are well ...

Coff.

[dragartist]

No Coff, I never had a hand in this. Just doing my bit to preserve historical documents. You know I am still a young man. That said I did work on some of the same Canberras as my Dad, who you also met, worked on as a young man. The oldest aircraft I have undertaken design work on is the Alouette II. I remember seeing the Heavy Lift aircraft at Stansted IIRC back in 82 when I was doing a bit for CAAFU. Did we buy back the refuelling probes?
Perhaps the threads can be merged to keep the story together.

[CoffmanStarter]

I was referring to your JATE 'Skip Diving'

[Pontius Navigator]

A Heavylift Belslow delivered a 57ft long periscope to ASI for onward delivery to FI. Now there was a reason for using the Belslow rather than a Herc - load length.

Flying down to FI with the tail gate open wasn't on. One of the movers had a great idea. The Top of the freight bay was long enough so the laid it on a platform so the ramp could be closed.

[Tankertrashnav]

Blimey, I used to have a sheepskin jacket just like that!

Was never a test-pilot though

[JW411]

Heavylift never operated a Belslow. By the time they got their hands on them they had all had the Fastback modification done.

[Madbob]

Here's a cut & paste from an earlier post of mine in October 2013 which some may not have seen. I think it makes an interesting comparison between three contemporaneous Western military transports.


I think that the Belfast's principal qualities were the length and increased cross-section of its cargo bay compared with the C-130. It was effectively 50% more in both dimensions.


It's weaknesses were that it was slow, lacked range as a strategic load lifter and it didn't have the versatility to match the tactical ability, rough field and STOL, offered by the C-130.


Had THOR, SKYBOLT and other missile programs not been cut then it would have been needed in more numbers and ergo, it's production run would have been longer and perhaps it's unit cost would have come down to a level to make other sales a viable possibility. We will never know, but the flight deck was enormous and from what I heard, it was liked by the crews that flew it.


MB




General characteristics - C133 Cargomaster

• Crew: six (two pilots, two engineers, navigator, loadmaster)
• Capacity: Designed as a logistics transport, the C-133 carried only small numbers of passengers, usually associated with the cargo.
• Payload: 110,000 lb (50,000 kg)
• Length: 157 ft 6 in (48.0 m)
• Wingspan: 179 ft 8 in (54.8 m)
• Height: 48 ft 3 in (14.7 m)
• Wing area: 2,673.1 ft² (248.34 m²)
• Empty weight: 109,417 lb (49,631 kg)
• Loaded weight: 275,000 lb (125,000 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 275,000 lb (C-133A) / 286,000 lb (C-133B) (125,000 kg (C-133A) / 130,000 kg (C-133B))
• Powerplant: 4× Pratt & Whitney T34-P-9W turboprops, 7,500 shp (5,586 kW) each
• * Cargo deck : 86 ft 10 in (26.47 m)

Performance

• Maximum speed: 312 kt (359 mph / 578 km/h)
• Cruise speed: 280 kt (322 mph / 519 km/h)
• Range: 3,560 nm with 52,000 lb (23,587 kg) payload (4,097 mi / 6,590 km)
• Service ceiling 32,300 ft (9,800 m)

General characteristics - Belfast C Mk 1

• Crew: Basic aircrew 4 (two pilots, engineer & navigator/radio operator) plus reserve crew
• Capacity: 11,750 cu. ft.
• Payload: 80,000 lb (36,288 kg)
• Length: 136 ft 5 in (41.70 m)
• Wingspan: 158 ft 10 in (48.1 m)
• Height: 47 ft (14.33 m)
• Wing area: 2,466 ft² (229.1 m²)
• Empty weight: 130,000 lb (59,020 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 230,000 lb (104,300 kg)
• Powerplant: 4× Rolls-Royce Tyne R.Ty.12, Mk. 101 turboprops, Hawker Siddeley Dynamics 4/7000/fully-feathering airscrews of 16 ft. diam., 5,730 ehp (4,270 kW) each

Performance

• Cruise speed: 358 mph (576 km/h)
• Range: 5,200 miles (8,368 km) with capacity fuel load of 80,720 lb
• Service ceiling 30,000 ft (9,100 m)
• Rate of climb: 1,060 ft/min (323 m/min)
• Range with maximum payload: 970 miles (1,560 km)

General characteristics - C 130 H

• Crew: 4-6: at least 2 pilots,1 flight engineer (eliminated in the J variant, replaced by crew chief), and 1 loadmaster; additional loadmaster and navigator are usually part of the crew
• Capacity:
  • 92 passengers or
  • 64 airborne troops or
  • 74 litter patients with 2 medical personnel
• Payload: 45,000 lb (20,000 kg) including 2-3 Humvees or an M113 Armored Personnel Carrier
• Length: 97 ft 9 in (29.8 m)
• Wingspan: 132 ft 7 in (40.4 m)
• Height: 38 ft 3 in (11.6 m)
• Wing area: 1,745 ft² (162.1 m²)
• Empty weight: 83,000 lb (38,000 kg)
• Useful load: 72,000 lb (33,000 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 155,000 lb (70,300 kg)
• Powerplant: 4× Allison T56-A-15turboprops, 4,300 shp (3,210 kW) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 329 knots (379 mph, 610 km/h)
• Cruise speed: 292 knots (336 mph, 540 km/h)
• Range: 2,050 nm (2,360 mi, 3,800 km)
• Service ceiling 33,000 ft (10,000 m)

[salad-dodger]

Heavy Lift were also employed by MoD during GW1. I can remember seeing them several times at Akrotiri on Bravo. I seem to remember seeing them transporting fuel bowsers on one occasion.

S-D

[harrym]

Fleet losses

ACW342, ref your quote "Unaware of any other aircraft fleet that ended service with no losses" in your #15, what about the RAF VC10 fleet?

In service for almost fifty years (1966-2014), with only two 'losses' - XR809 to Rolls Royce for the RB211 project, and XR806 damaged Cat 5 due to a grossly mishandled de-fuelling procedure by Brize's Eng Wing. Neither were in any way flight-related, so I submit that the VC10's 48 years of RAF service could be termed morally, if not factually, loss-free.

harrym

[1.3VStall]

Harrym

I don't think the RAF ever lost a Britannia either.

[charliegolf]

Originally Posted by 1.3VStall

Harrym

I don't think the RAF ever lost a Britannia either.

On 12 October 1967, "Sirius" a Royal Air Force C1 was damaged beyond repair after over-running the runway at RAF Khormaksar, Aden.

So says Wiki

CG

[Dougie M]

Brit at Khormaksar

A bit off thread but I watched it from our Argosy squadron HQ. Apparently there was a glitch in the "superfine - brake dwell - full reverse" bit. The JAG and his entourage were on board and not well happy.

[Exnomad]

I worked on Belfast Simulator
I think it was Belfast that one of the pilots told us it was like flying a block of flats from a secoind story window,

[Double Hydco]

I'll leave this here just for a bit of illustration....

DH

[Herod]

Dougie M. That photograph was taken by yours truly the following morning. You can see the shadow of my Wessex on it. Don't worry, it's not copyrighted. Brakedwell is the man who can explain exactly what happened.

[brakedwell]

Brakedwell is the man who can explain exactly what happened.

Sod's law at work I 'm afraid. A newly converted Captain with a new Flight Engineer. The F/E did not fully engage the reverse arm lever in it's detent, so forward thrust was active when he moved the throttles back. I understand several attempts were made to achieve reverse, each time compounding the problem with more forward thrust until they went off the end of the runway.