New CDS Announced
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Before this thread flamed the point being argued was that we should have maintained the rotational system; the counter to this is that we get the best person for the job. My understanding is that there were 3 candidates and the PM choose who he thought was best having met them. So the 'best man' is merely the subjective opinion of the PM. To paraphrase a previous CDS 'being in the CCF at Eton does not make him a military expert' At least rotation would remove this political input.
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I am very happy to be able to report to all you ex-RN chaps with huge and very obvious chips on your shoulders that the vast majority of my currently-serving Royal Navy colleagues do not share your naive, bitter, blinkered views about the other services. By posting your personal, self-opinionated, ill-informed bile in public you do little more than discredit your former Service.
Since you guys left, things have moved on. Maybe you should too.
Since you guys left, things have moved on. Maybe you should too.
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Mach
Trying to sell the idea that political appointees are the way ahead for the military does your intelligence no service.
We all know that politicians want yes men.
At least a rotation gives us some hope of the occasional spine.
p.s. You are wrong about what the RN believes. We all think light blue are wet!
Trying to sell the idea that political appointees are the way ahead for the military does your intelligence no service.
We all know that politicians want yes men.
At least a rotation gives us some hope of the occasional spine.
p.s. You are wrong about what the RN believes. We all think light blue are wet!
Hangarshuffle,
ACM Peach was the Chief of Joint Operations during the Libya campaign. That means that he was responsible for the conduct of the campaign in pursuit of the military strategic objectives set for it, not for the decision to launch the campaign in the first place. As the military campaign was entirely successful in reaching its own limited objectives, Peach deserves none of your inferred criticism. If the Government's wider strategy was inept in failing to anticipate the subsequent political difficulties that is hardly his fault (or, indeed, his problem).
As to your comments regarding the relationship between politicians and the CDS, instead of posting your half-baked cod analysis of some stuff you found using Google, why don't you go to the library and get Lord Richards' autobiography "Taking Command"? You would get some first-hand reporting from a former CDS, not some rubbish on a blog, about how politicians react to the advice they get from the professional head of the services. The response to Richards' recommendations during the development of the Syrian civil war makes enlightening and slightly alarming reading, and would firmly debunk your idea that our CDS's are "yes men".
ACM Peach was the Chief of Joint Operations during the Libya campaign. That means that he was responsible for the conduct of the campaign in pursuit of the military strategic objectives set for it, not for the decision to launch the campaign in the first place. As the military campaign was entirely successful in reaching its own limited objectives, Peach deserves none of your inferred criticism. If the Government's wider strategy was inept in failing to anticipate the subsequent political difficulties that is hardly his fault (or, indeed, his problem).
As to your comments regarding the relationship between politicians and the CDS, instead of posting your half-baked cod analysis of some stuff you found using Google, why don't you go to the library and get Lord Richards' autobiography "Taking Command"? You would get some first-hand reporting from a former CDS, not some rubbish on a blog, about how politicians react to the advice they get from the professional head of the services. The response to Richards' recommendations during the development of the Syrian civil war makes enlightening and slightly alarming reading, and would firmly debunk your idea that our CDS's are "yes men".
When he was a one star, I recall him telling us that he'd been dragged down to HQ STC for a bollocking. He was made to sit in the outer office for a number of hours before being marched in, bollocked and then sent on his way back to Waddington. I can't recall the reason for the bollocking but it certainly wasn't because he was a yes man.
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A first class choice for CDS. The appointment is made by the PM and needs HM's approval it is not a rotational post - any more.
Peachy got it because he impressed the PM in his previous appointments/commands.
He delivers on time on budget no BS or politics.
He is his own man.
I know, and some of you know because you worked for him.
Well he worked for me.
Peachy got it because he impressed the PM in his previous appointments/commands.
He delivers on time on budget no BS or politics.
He is his own man.
I know, and some of you know because you worked for him.
Well he worked for me.
Maybe the RAF will get over what looks like snobbery and promote the best person for the CAS job rather than the 'best' Pilot.
How about the the chap who currently runs google
FB
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I suppose the good news is that Admiral Z will now be snapped up by industry and actually paid what he is worth, not a capped wage that for running a large multi-national company!
Mick,
Perhaps so, but "on the other side" there is an increasing gap between what Senior Officers think they're worth and the reality of what Industry is prepared to pay. True, this perception is at its worst at OF5/1* level - I've had to stop giggling when some old colleagues of mine have thought that they're worth £130-150K "because I need to cover school fees, ski trips and a massive mortgage...". Frankly my advice to them is stay put and buy a house while you're still in and young enough to get a decent mortgage...A lot of the ex-mil guys who are doing really well in Industry left as SNCOs and SO2s and have worked themselves up the ladder through ability and hard work, rather than relying on a string of post nominals and an address book as a "pass" to the top echelon.
Back on topic - Peachy is probably the strongest intellect I've ever met. He used to growl for effect as Cmdt AWC when I was on an OEU and we all listened. More recently he seems to have chilled a bit - I even saw him smile at a recent briefing he gave.......
Perhaps so, but "on the other side" there is an increasing gap between what Senior Officers think they're worth and the reality of what Industry is prepared to pay. True, this perception is at its worst at OF5/1* level - I've had to stop giggling when some old colleagues of mine have thought that they're worth £130-150K "because I need to cover school fees, ski trips and a massive mortgage...". Frankly my advice to them is stay put and buy a house while you're still in and young enough to get a decent mortgage...A lot of the ex-mil guys who are doing really well in Industry left as SNCOs and SO2s and have worked themselves up the ladder through ability and hard work, rather than relying on a string of post nominals and an address book as a "pass" to the top echelon.
Back on topic - Peachy is probably the strongest intellect I've ever met. He used to growl for effect as Cmdt AWC when I was on an OEU and we all listened. More recently he seems to have chilled a bit - I even saw him smile at a recent briefing he gave.......
I recall that when I left the RAF (early 90s) I worked for a while in career change - remember "Opportunities" newspaper? - I did some individual advice, some times for VSOs. One multi-starred gent firstly got tee'd off that I did not call him sir. We went though a few issues, and then I commented that he did not have a computer terminal on his desk. "No, I have chaps out there (indicating outer office) to do that". He was not impressed with the suggestion that nipping down to the local evening classes and doing a basic IT course might be worthwhile. The classic end to the session was when I asked him what sort of second career he had in mind. "Thought I would quite like to be the Master of an Oxford college" had me almost choking!
Stu Peach's appointment as CDS has been on the cards since he was appointed from a cast of thousands as the first Commander of Joint Forces Command. Although I would have preferred to see someone wearing dark blue (or even lovat) occupying the post, particularly to oversee the exploitation of the RN's formidable range of new capabilities in a joint environment, I don't believe I'm the only 'simple sailor' who thinks we could have done a lot worse...
...and he can smile.
...and he can smile.
Tourist: Given the chance, the politician will always choose the CDS that does as he is told.
Tourist: We all know that politicians want yes men.
Hangarshuffle: But he is looking like a Conservative party shoe in. A yes man.
+1 for East Street
I don't know the guy,I've never met him and I have been out of the business for years.
Having said that, he was drawn to my attention several years ago as being . allegedly , the subject of attempts to block his ascent by certain senior unnamed others in the RAF Int. Community.
If so , then he has my sympathy and also my admiration for triumphing.
Time might ( possibly ) tell.
In any event I wish him well.
Having said that, he was drawn to my attention several years ago as being . allegedly , the subject of attempts to block his ascent by certain senior unnamed others in the RAF Int. Community.
If so , then he has my sympathy and also my admiration for triumphing.
Time might ( possibly ) tell.
In any event I wish him well.
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Interesting new take on this appointment from The Times, apparently Barron was the MoDs choice but was overuled by the PM. Barron was offered VCDS but declined and resigned. Article in full for those who are interested:
A Royal Marine is expected to be given the No 2 job in the armed forces as part of a reorganisation of the top echelons that will also establish new heads for the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy, The Times can reveal.
Lieutenant-General Gordon Messenger, a decorated Afghan veteran, is the surprise choice for vice-chief of the defence staff after David Cameron derailed the Ministry of Defence’s succession plans by overruling its recommendation for the top job, chief of the defence staff, senior defence sources said.
Air Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier, a highly respected pilot, is expected to become the chief of the air staff, and Vice-Admiral Sir Philip Jones is set to be the next first sea lord.
The appointments, due to be confirmed as early as today, come after the prime minister last week selected Air Chief Marshal Sir Stuart Peach, the vice-chief, as the next head of the military rather than General Sir Richard Barrons, who had been preferred by the MoD’s senior appointments committee, a senior source said.
It is highly unusual for a prime minister to overrule the committee. The move, seen by some as political meddling, has left several senior officers very unhappy, the source added.
It also created a dilemma over who would fill the other top posts because Air Chief Marshal Peach had been expected to remain in his job. One insider described the subsequent jostling for power between the army, air force and navy as like “Game of Thrones inside the Ministry of Defence . . . you either win or die”.
At first General Barrons, head of joint forces command, another four-star post, was offered the job of vice-chief, but he turned it down and handed in his notice, sources said.
General Messenger was considered for the vice-chief job along with Lieutenant-General Sir Christopher Deverell, head of army equipment. General Messenger looks set to have won the contest and will rise to the position of four-star officer at the early age of 53. It will also make him the first Royal Marine to reach such a high rank in almost 40 years. The last four-star Marine served in 1977.
A Royal Marine is expected to be given the No 2 job in the armed forces as part of a reorganisation of the top echelons that will also establish new heads for the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy, The Times can reveal.
Lieutenant-General Gordon Messenger, a decorated Afghan veteran, is the surprise choice for vice-chief of the defence staff after David Cameron derailed the Ministry of Defence’s succession plans by overruling its recommendation for the top job, chief of the defence staff, senior defence sources said.
Air Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier, a highly respected pilot, is expected to become the chief of the air staff, and Vice-Admiral Sir Philip Jones is set to be the next first sea lord.
The appointments, due to be confirmed as early as today, come after the prime minister last week selected Air Chief Marshal Sir Stuart Peach, the vice-chief, as the next head of the military rather than General Sir Richard Barrons, who had been preferred by the MoD’s senior appointments committee, a senior source said.
It is highly unusual for a prime minister to overrule the committee. The move, seen by some as political meddling, has left several senior officers very unhappy, the source added.
It also created a dilemma over who would fill the other top posts because Air Chief Marshal Peach had been expected to remain in his job. One insider described the subsequent jostling for power between the army, air force and navy as like “Game of Thrones inside the Ministry of Defence . . . you either win or die”.
At first General Barrons, head of joint forces command, another four-star post, was offered the job of vice-chief, but he turned it down and handed in his notice, sources said.
General Messenger was considered for the vice-chief job along with Lieutenant-General Sir Christopher Deverell, head of army equipment. General Messenger looks set to have won the contest and will rise to the position of four-star officer at the early age of 53. It will also make him the first Royal Marine to reach such a high rank in almost 40 years. The last four-star Marine served in 1977.