Germany to choose between CH-53K and CH-47F

[KenV]

Originally Posted by Evalu8ter

Ken V, Indeed - The gearbox/head of the -53K weighs the same as a UH60. That's what power folding complexity costs you. The K is designed to float about in a maritime environment. The RAF has successfully operated the -47 off carriers for years. Yes there is a maintenance penalty - but it's a small price to pay. The Chinook is only "unwieldy" in terms of storage. The power and tandem rotor layout make ship ops very straightforward (I've landed one downwind with the boat doing 25+kts with no issue whatsoever - aside from landing in my own spray...)

Indeed. USN operated the -47's little brother, the CH-46 "Phrog" for decades and loved it. Good performance and very forgiving. And cross wind performance was unmatchable. So unless that folding capability is REALLY needed, or the high slung load capability REALLY required, the -53K would be an unnecessarily very expensive choice.

[chopper2004]

Here she is, my photos first prodcution a/c making its first international debut ...mid week at ILA,




cheers

[chopper2004]

Funding approved for replacement

Last night the Federal Government announced funding has been released for replacement of the legacy 53 fleet so may the best man win.

Cheers


https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/d...-lift-package/

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...o-helicopters/

German defense ministry targets new US channel for buying heavy cargo helicopters

COLOGNE, Germany — The German defense ministry is eyeing something of a redo of its failed acquisition strategy for new heavy cargo helicopters, banking on the U.S. foreign military sales process to yield contracts for either the Lockheed Martin King Stallion or Boeing Chinook by the end of 2022.

The strategy appears in the ministry’s latest report on major weapon systems, released this week. The previous acquisition track, abandoned in September, saw the Berlin government deal directly with the two vendors, dictating a host of special requirements for the aircraft that ended up making their offers too expensive.

By picking the FMS route, the German defense ministry is expected to work more closely with the U.S. government in the eventual purchase of a replacement for the Bundeswehr’s CH-53G helicopters by 2030. The process allows foreign governments buying U.S. kit some leeway in customizing their equipment, but the push for standard-issue equipment is generally more pronounced than in direct commercial sales.

That kind of discipline may be a welcome constraint for the German military-acquisition office, which had added a litany of special requirements for communications equipment and sensors, like a new weather radar, into the previous program. In the end, industry officials said, the eventual wish list released by the defense ministry was a far cry from the original desire for a no-frills workhorse helicopter on the battlefield.

At the same time, industry sources caution that there would have to be some adjustments made to U.S. aircraft in order to get them certified to fly here. Countries also typically want their own communications gear that fits with national security standards.

The prospect of an election here next year, which usually means large-scale acquisition decisions must wait, has the defense ministry scrambling to make decisions, perhaps as soon as this month.

“We are currently re-evaluating the project,” a spokeswoman told Defense News. “A decision about how, and whether, we will continue has yet to be made.”

The newspaper Welt am Sonntag reported over the weekend that defense officials had lodged a formal FMS request with the Pentagon on Nov. 20, asking for responses by Dec. 4. Such a turnaround time would be extraordinary when accounting for the Thanksgiving holiday and Washington’s lame-duck spirit after a grueling presidential race.

The apparent rush has already caught the attention of industry. “We appreciate that the acquisition process will continue but we are wondering about the fast pace,” Dennis Goege, Lockheed’s vice president for central and eastern Europe, told the Handelsblatt newspaper. “We aim for a competition that ensures a fair comparison of both aircraft,” he added.

[chopper2004]

Re: Boeing Future Transport Rotorcraft for European requirement?


Note the German markings.
Yes, it seems that the HTH/FTH program (CH-53G successor for the Heeresflieger / German Army Air Corps) is going more forward to a tandem rotor heavy-lift helicopter.

Even EADS/Eurocopter is promoting a tandem rotor helicopter.

See thread "Eurocopter HTH".

Airbus and Boeing join forces for marketing H-47 for German Bundeswehr Heavylift Helicopter replacement for the Luftwaffe Sikorsky CH-53 fleet.

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/p...c-h-47-chinook






Cheers

[Less Hair]

Feels a bit like the "Luftwaffe Kater" Tomcat F-14.
HOME OF M.A.T.S. - The most comprehensive Grumman F-14 Reference Work - by Torsten Anft!

[Hueymeister]

The German anti noise brigade will go nuts over the Chinook Lärm!

[Less Hair]

Only until they have heard the F-35.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Originally Posted by Hueymeister

The German anti noise brigade will go nuts over the Chinook Lärm!

The '53 isn't exactly a discrete aircraft! We'd often be woken from our slumber by the MH-53s when they popped into Stafford at silly o'clock.

[Asturias56]

Chinooks - Iworked in Odiham for a while (notatthe base) and the sound of Chinooks doing circuits was non-stop - but it wasn't too bad. it's low frequency noise TBH

[minigundiplomat]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

Chinooks - Iworked in Odiham for a while (notatthe base) and the sound of Chinooks doing circuits was non-stop - but it wasn't too bad. it's low frequency noise TBH

those toilets were spotless whilst you were at the council.

[Asturias56]

)))))))))))))))))))))))))

Close but no cigar - I worked behind the bar in the Bell........................ serving folk from the base..............

[Hilife]

The Bell at Odiham. Now there's an establishment I'd long forgotten about. Forty years ago and more I used to walk down from the base for the reward of real ale in a locals pub, tucked away from High Street. Happy days.

[Asturias56]

Still there - I attended a funeral of a very old (in all senses) friend in the church opposite last year Still very much a locals pub

[melmothtw]

Originally Posted by chopper2004

Re: Boeing Future Transport Rotorcraft for European requirement?


Note the German markings.
Yes, it seems that the HTH/FTH program (CH-53G successor for the Heeresflieger / German Army Air Corps) is going more forward to a tandem rotor heavy-lift helicopter.

Even EADS/Eurocopter is promoting a tandem rotor helicopter.

See thread "Eurocopter HTH".

Airbus and Boeing join forces for marketing H-47 for German Bundeswehr Heavylift Helicopter replacement for the Luftwaffe Sikorsky CH-53 fleet.

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/p...c-h-47-chinook






Cheers

Boeing releasing a concept image of the Chinook in German markings in no way suggests that this is the direction the Luftwaffe (note, not the Heeresflieger) is looking to go for its CH-53G replacement. Boeing has been putting out such imagery for a while, as had Lockheed Martin with its CH-53K.

[chopper2004]

Originally Posted by melmothtw

Boeing releasing a concept image of the Chinook in German markings in no way suggests that this is the direction the Luftwaffe (note, not the Heeresflieger) is looking to go for its CH-53G replacement. Boeing has been putting out such imagery for a while, as had Lockheed Martin with its CH-53K.

Though I attended the International Military Helicopter Conference in Syon Park and noticed on the Boeing booth / desk




cheers

[melmothtw]

Yes, again that was Boeing promoting its Chinook offering for Germany. Quite normal for an OEM to do that, and not indicative of any decision to buy on the customer's part.

[sandiego89]

Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker

The '53 isn't exactly a discrete aircraft! We'd often be woken from our slumber by the MH-53s when they popped into Stafford at silly o'clock.

As someone that lives near frequent corridors for H-53 and H-60 transits I can attest you know when a 53 is approaching! You feel it as much as hear it when my house widows start rattling.

[chopper2004]

Originally Posted by melmothtw

Yes, again that was Boeing promoting its Chinook offering for Germany. Quite normal for an OEM to do that, and not indicative of any decision to buy on the customer's part.

I was thinking more on ‘where’s Wally’ and spot the difference games ….the model has not got AAR probe on it…I did hear a rumor that the requirements from Berlin may havE been Nein to AAr…

Cheers

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

Chinooks - Iworked in Odiham for a while (notatthe base) and the sound of Chinooks doing circuits was non-stop - but it wasn't too bad. it's low frequency noise TBH

i remember when we first got them and I think it was DW on the Ops desk that took a call from an irate farmer who had asked to be put through to those people with the new helicopters, he complained they were scaring his livestock and was told, well, they better we’ll get used to it as they will be here for the next 40 years…..


The CH-53 makes sense in they operate the type etc all be it an earlier version, but have operational experience, but on this side of the pond one would think the CH 47 would make more sense in NATO inter operability with the U.K., The Netherlands, Italy, Greece and Spain all operating the type, with possibly other countries equipping with them.


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