Gary Powers U2 mission 1960
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Gary Powers U2 mission 1960
Interesting take on the 1960 sensation at Gary Powers: The U2 spy pilot the US did not love - BBC News
Gary Powers' shooting down was featured in the new Speilberg/Hanks movie 'Bridge of Spies'.
The actual ejection/abandonment sequence was somewhat surprising to these untrained eyes....not sure if the portrayal was accurate or a little bit of Hollywood 'Artistic Licence'.
The actual ejection/abandonment sequence was somewhat surprising to these untrained eyes....not sure if the portrayal was accurate or a little bit of Hollywood 'Artistic Licence'.
Interesting take on the 1960 sensation at Gary Powers: The U2 spy pilot the US did not love - BBC News
He didn't activate the self destruct and allegedly talked far too much and far too freely once safe. He handed the Sovs the entire package. He screwed the pooch. How could he expect to be "popular" on his return? I remember at the time my Dad saying that as the U2 was considered untouchable pilots were not given counter-interrogation training which was the only reason he was not courtmartialed and banged up for life tho I was too young to understand.
Would you have had the RAF U2 Pilots commit Suicide had they been shot down?
The RAF's secret spies: Declassified CIA documents reveal British pilots flew U2 missions over Soviet Union during the Cold War | Daily Mail Online
The RAF's secret spies: Declassified CIA documents reveal British pilots flew U2 missions over Soviet Union during the Cold War | Daily Mail Online
After four and half hours of flight time, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile exploded behind Powers’ U2 at roughly 70,500 feet. Though U2 reconnaissance flights were usually charted to avoid SAM sites, mission planners had not known about the one that fired the three-missile burst that shot down Powers as well as a Soviet aircraft sent up to intercept him.
According to the CIA documents, the centrifugal force of the now-spiraling aircraft threw Powers against his canopy, ruling out the use of the ejection seat. Instead, Powers released the canopy and prepared to jump out of the aircraft manually. Powers was also prepared to activate a destruction switch for the aircraft’s camera but was unable to because after he released his seatbelt, he was immediately thrown out of the aircraft, where he proceeded to dangle by his oxygen hose until it snapped. The aircraft crashed largely intact and Powers was recovered by Soviet forces in a field on the outskirts of Sverdlovsk shortly after.
According to the CIA documents, the centrifugal force of the now-spiraling aircraft threw Powers against his canopy, ruling out the use of the ejection seat. Instead, Powers released the canopy and prepared to jump out of the aircraft manually. Powers was also prepared to activate a destruction switch for the aircraft’s camera but was unable to because after he released his seatbelt, he was immediately thrown out of the aircraft, where he proceeded to dangle by his oxygen hose until it snapped. The aircraft crashed largely intact and Powers was recovered by Soviet forces in a field on the outskirts of Sverdlovsk shortly after.
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I remember at the time my Dad saying that as the U2 was considered untouchable pilots were not given counter-interrogation training which was the only reason he was not courtmartialed and banged up for life tho I was too young to understand.
Doesn't the article made clear that USAF were given them but not "expected" to use them. One can only assume that someone thought they were a "good idea" in some circumstances or other.
So SASless, what makes you think that anyone would "have had the RAF...commit suicide" as though it might have been mandatory?
Seems an extraordinarily bizarre scenario to come up with!
edit...Oh, sorry OFO. Thanks for your helpful, informed and incisive input. You seem to be having comprehension problems as well as a particularly obnoxious manner. I can't help what I am told and merely related something that I recall was currently thought at the time as it could only have come from then current affairs or the press which makes it somewhat more objective, I submit, than any of your contribution. Try reading the post again. It makes sense.
Last edited by Wageslave; 3rd Jan 2016 at 17:12.
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Reading SASless's transcript of the actual abandonment of the aircraft means that there was little artistic licence in the film.
One would assume it was a straight ejection given the circumstances, but clearly from the description it was not, and it was portrayed pretty accurately in the film it would seem.
One would assume it was a straight ejection given the circumstances, but clearly from the description it was not, and it was portrayed pretty accurately in the film it would seem.
The article makes clear that Powers did not break any expectations placed on him, nor did he fail to follow orders by not taking the pill. The CIA report fully exonerated his actions.
Its remarkably easy 50 years later to decry the memory of a dead man when you have no idea of what actually happened. Sad but true.
Its remarkably easy 50 years later to decry the memory of a dead man when you have no idea of what actually happened. Sad but true.
He didn't activate the self destruct and allegedly talked far too much and far too freely once safe. He handed the Sovs the entire package. He screwed the pooch. How could he expect to be "popular" on his return?
Now let's move on with a discussion of Gary Powers, the U2 Program, the new Movie, and other issues relevant to that event in History.
Powers was tracked by Soviet Air Defense Radar from a point prior to his entering their Airspace and thus was at risk of being shot down as they had plenty of time to prepare for his track over their Homeland.
That the risk was known but found acceptable due to the value of the Intelligence being gained and the informed decision to continue with the Over Flights anyway.....how is that Powers' fault in any way?
That the aircraft was out of control and had put him into a situation where he could not eject but had to egress the old fashioned way....and could not activate the Camera Self Destruct system....that is just bad luck I would suggest.
It isn't clear who this question is aimed at as no one has mentioned RAF pilots or suicide pills before SASless introduced them to the thread.
Doesn't the article made clear that USAF were given them but not "expected" to use them. One can only assume that someone thought they were a "good idea" in some circumstances or other.
So SASless, what makes you think that anyone would "have had the RAF...commit suicide" as though it might have been mandatory?
Seems an extraordinarily bizarre scenario to come up with!
edit...Oh, sorry OFO. Thanks for your helpful, informed and incisive input. You seem to be having comprehension problems as well as a particularly obnoxious manner. I can't help what I am told and merely related something that I recall was currently thought at the time as it could only have come from then current affairs or the press which makes it somewhat more objective, I submit, than any of your contribution. Try reading the post again. It makes sense.
Doesn't the article made clear that USAF were given them but not "expected" to use them. One can only assume that someone thought they were a "good idea" in some circumstances or other.
So SASless, what makes you think that anyone would "have had the RAF...commit suicide" as though it might have been mandatory?
Seems an extraordinarily bizarre scenario to come up with!
edit...Oh, sorry OFO. Thanks for your helpful, informed and incisive input. You seem to be having comprehension problems as well as a particularly obnoxious manner. I can't help what I am told and merely related something that I recall was currently thought at the time as it could only have come from then current affairs or the press which makes it somewhat more objective, I submit, than any of your contribution. Try reading the post again. It makes sense.
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAE...hapter%203.pdf
and parts of the following chapter
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAE...hapter%204.pdf
(which contains an interesting map).
As the BBC piece makes clear, Powers was exonerated by both the Senate and the CIA. With the greatest respect to your father, he was undoubtedly reflecting the views which had formed before the Senate inquiry and the release of the CIA report. As a 'for instance' of where the official record contradicts perceptions of the time, Chapter 4 of the CIA official history, on page 177, makes clear why Powers did not operate the self-destruct - because he couldn't; pages 183-184 consider Powers' actions.
Were it possible to libel a dead man, I fear that your first post would've achieved that very nicely...
Last edited by Archimedes; 3rd Jan 2016 at 20:58.
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Not seen the film yet, but always been interested in his flight.
Couple of points. His aircraft, article 360, had a dodgy autopilot, so FGP was hand flying it.
He took off from Peshawar, and planned to land at Bodo in Norway. Of course he never made it that far, but some of the mission planners reckoned that it was impossible to complete the flight as planned. Too far.
There is also speculation that the 'go' signal for his flight was sent insecurely- at least for part of its transmission, and that the Soviets knew he was coming- although he flew the first part of the flight at low (for a U-2) level to avoid attracting attention.
Also, it's never really been established whether he was shot down at the planned very high altitude, or if he'd been forced lower- perhaps after a flame out and then shot down. It seems most likely that he was at max alt, but some doubt remains.
Couple of points. His aircraft, article 360, had a dodgy autopilot, so FGP was hand flying it.
He took off from Peshawar, and planned to land at Bodo in Norway. Of course he never made it that far, but some of the mission planners reckoned that it was impossible to complete the flight as planned. Too far.
There is also speculation that the 'go' signal for his flight was sent insecurely- at least for part of its transmission, and that the Soviets knew he was coming- although he flew the first part of the flight at low (for a U-2) level to avoid attracting attention.
Also, it's never really been established whether he was shot down at the planned very high altitude, or if he'd been forced lower- perhaps after a flame out and then shot down. It seems most likely that he was at max alt, but some doubt remains.
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Of course, the really funny thing is how the oh-so-honest cousins, on hearing about the shoot down- and confident in Powers' death, went on to trot out their prearranged story about how the unfortunate pilot had been on a weather recce flight and had oxygen trouble....
This had caused the pilot to die in the aircraft, which then had continued on autopilot, and any inconvenience was regretted, but it was all completely innocent.
The wily Soviets waited until the false story was trotted out before revealing that:
They had the pilot! And he was alive.
They had the aircraft, and it was in big pieces and readily identifiable for what it was.
They had the cameras.
And they had the photos!
All a bit embarrassing.......
This had caused the pilot to die in the aircraft, which then had continued on autopilot, and any inconvenience was regretted, but it was all completely innocent.
The wily Soviets waited until the false story was trotted out before revealing that:
They had the pilot! And he was alive.
They had the aircraft, and it was in big pieces and readily identifiable for what it was.
They had the cameras.
And they had the photos!
All a bit embarrassing.......
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I know that 3 aircraft crashed, Farmer or Fishpot. One, as recounted above was shot down. The other two span out of control trying to match U2 speed and height.
They fired many more than 3 SA2.
They fired many more than 3 SA2.
SAS, in your usual way you manage to be unnecessarily unpleasant with no good reason.
No one but you implied the risk was not considered acceptable. Sure, being unable to eject was likely bad luck, did anyone suggest otherwise?
The US government, as so gleefully put by atomkraft, followed a rather unimaginative line and acted as though the loss had gone "according to plan" before knowing the facts and walked right into the trap that Kruschev had carefully laid. The pilot had not conveniently died as expected, nor had he destroyed the plane as he was expected to and he then proceeded to act in a rather unedifying, unmilitary and, as would have been thought at the time, unpatriotic manner in the show trial. Having been so shown up on each count they were rather naturally not best pleased to be so embarrassed. That is why he was not exactly the Govt's Flavour of the Month on his return, and it must have pissed them off yet further to have had to exonerate him in the subsequent enquiries.
No, archimedes, what I said was merely what happened or was believed to have happened at the time. Does anyone really know the whole story? I doubt it vey much. Rather ridiculous, not to mention precious to call that libel.
No one but you implied the risk was not considered acceptable. Sure, being unable to eject was likely bad luck, did anyone suggest otherwise?
The US government, as so gleefully put by atomkraft, followed a rather unimaginative line and acted as though the loss had gone "according to plan" before knowing the facts and walked right into the trap that Kruschev had carefully laid. The pilot had not conveniently died as expected, nor had he destroyed the plane as he was expected to and he then proceeded to act in a rather unedifying, unmilitary and, as would have been thought at the time, unpatriotic manner in the show trial. Having been so shown up on each count they were rather naturally not best pleased to be so embarrassed. That is why he was not exactly the Govt's Flavour of the Month on his return, and it must have pissed them off yet further to have had to exonerate him in the subsequent enquiries.
No, archimedes, what I said was merely what happened or was believed to have happened at the time. Does anyone really know the whole story? I doubt it vey much. Rather ridiculous, not to mention precious to call that libel.
Shoe pinch a bit when its on the other foot does it WS?
You say Powers "screwed the pooch" by making a very risky over flight of the Soviet Union in the heat of the Cold War, got shot down, barely escaped with his life, gets captured and thrown into the Soviet Prison System....with no hope of the US Government being able to help him.
He runs every risk of being shot out of hand by the Soviets....who do have a habit of that kind of thing if you know anything at about the KGB and their peculiar system of justice in those days.
You accuse him of talking too much while in prison with his knowledge and belief the USA was not knowing of his status.
Then he goes on Trial for his Life.
You base all your comments on something yer Dad heard down the Pub or something and you think I am being unnecessarily rude to you.
If you had taken just a scant minute or two and hit Google, Chrome, Firefox or some other search engine you might have had a more accurate basis upon which to comment.
Excuse me if I find your complaint to be somewhat less than justified.
You say Powers "screwed the pooch" by making a very risky over flight of the Soviet Union in the heat of the Cold War, got shot down, barely escaped with his life, gets captured and thrown into the Soviet Prison System....with no hope of the US Government being able to help him.
He runs every risk of being shot out of hand by the Soviets....who do have a habit of that kind of thing if you know anything at about the KGB and their peculiar system of justice in those days.
You accuse him of talking too much while in prison with his knowledge and belief the USA was not knowing of his status.
Then he goes on Trial for his Life.
You base all your comments on something yer Dad heard down the Pub or something and you think I am being unnecessarily rude to you.
If you had taken just a scant minute or two and hit Google, Chrome, Firefox or some other search engine you might have had a more accurate basis upon which to comment.
Excuse me if I find your complaint to be somewhat less than justified.
Last edited by SASless; 3rd Jan 2016 at 23:16.
Wrong state
According to a 1998 book on Dreamland, when talking about the U-2 program, and the shootdown; FGP was shown a map of Nevada by his interrogators. He was asked when the 'Ranch' /Groom Lake was and subsequently pointed it out.
The laughable thing was he was shown a map of Arizona or New Mexico so the Sovs had got it wrong apparently.
cheers
The laughable thing was he was shown a map of Arizona or New Mexico so the Sovs had got it wrong apparently.
cheers
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Don't see why he spams gave him a hard time on his return.
They gave him the mission & they gave him an aircraft that could be shot down. GFP should have been kicking off with them muppets, not the other way round ffs!!!
They gave him the mission & they gave him an aircraft that could be shot down. GFP should have been kicking off with them muppets, not the other way round ffs!!!