Tornado Replacement
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Well you are entitled to your "opinion" but as the airframe was designed to loiter far offshore then dash and launch at either incoming sov bombers or cruise missiles it did it's job perfectly.
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Well just a couple of points... it never had to launch at an incoming bomber so we don't actually know if it "would" have been perfect at it's job but as I said originally, it didn't have the flexibility to perform outside that cold war "loiter" role. The GR1 had a low level cold war role but was able to perform different roles at different altitudes and to do it very well.
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Yes, we should all be grateful for the fact that the F3 was never called to carry out it's primary duty in defence of mainland UK.
It did carry out that role [and others] in various operational theatres around the globe.
The fact that it deterred aggression is an additional plus.
It did carry out that role [and others] in various operational theatres around the globe.
The fact that it deterred aggression is an additional plus.
Originally Posted by Vendee
It didn't have the flexability to operate out of its original cold war role, unlike the combat proven GR1/4 which is still performing sterling work today.
Vendee,
No-one's disputing that it never fired a shot in anger (though some got close....). My comment was based on your assertion of a lack of flexibility - the airframe and systems seemed well suited to the SEAD/ECR role as envisaged. With the Airships bemoaning "critical mass" and the rather nasty prospect of entering areas with the like of S-400 located in them, a couple of sqns of flexible support aircraft would probably be quite welcome.....maybe we could talk to the Germans about some ECR mods to some GR4s and extend OSD?
No-one's disputing that it never fired a shot in anger (though some got close....). My comment was based on your assertion of a lack of flexibility - the airframe and systems seemed well suited to the SEAD/ECR role as envisaged. With the Airships bemoaning "critical mass" and the rather nasty prospect of entering areas with the like of S-400 located in them, a couple of sqns of flexible support aircraft would probably be quite welcome.....maybe we could talk to the Germans about some ECR mods to some GR4s and extend OSD?
Wrt F16 lease, the rumour I heard was that Portillo offered a wing of F16s to replace the Jaguar force but the RAF brass turned him down as they feared it would put Typhoon numbers (and their future jobs.....) at risk.
Can you post a trigger warning before you mention that exercise? I was involved in some of the discussions, and the thought of staring down the barrels of Messrs Carter-Ruck gives me the heebie-jeebies to this day.
Had it all gone differently, there would be no Typhoon...
Can you post a trigger warning before you mention that exercise? I was involved in some of the discussions, and the thought of staring down the barrels of Messrs Carter-Ruck gives me the heebie-jeebies to this day.
Had it all gone differently, there would be no Typhoon...
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to get the real deal.....
winchester
Last edited by glad rag; 9th Jan 2016 at 17:59.
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I think you're deliberately confusing events with capability. But if that suits your obvious stance (without any real reason) then good for you.
You're comparing a bomber's service record with an interceptor's. And, no, it has nothing to do with "what might have happened". None of that is meaningful evidence for your "substandard" or "it didn't have the flexibility to perform outside the Cold War" comments.
You state your case with the certainty of an experienced F3 operator, but your obvious bias (I eluded to no agenda) suggests otherwise.
You state your case with the certainty of an experienced F3 operator, but your obvious bias (I eluded to no agenda) suggests otherwise.
In its twilight years, with Link 16, AMRAAM, ASRAAM and the Stage 3 version of AI-24, the Tornado F3 was a formidable interceptor.
But spotters
and 'Top Gun' followers will continue to believe that manoeuvrability and Tom Cruise antics matter more...
But spotters
and 'Top Gun' followers will continue to believe that manoeuvrability and Tom Cruise antics matter more...
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So the F-14 would have been a better option for the 80's, 90's early 00's???
Originally Posted by Just This Once
I don't think I have ever flown a GR with the Kruegers enabled and the F3 was built without them. However, it is possible to fit nib antennas above even fully-functioning Kruegers (shown here extended at 116 deg, with the black RF transparency above):
If you want really big forward antennas then you can fit an assembly that completely replaces the original flap/nib structure, as per the Tornado ECR.
If you want really big forward antennas then you can fit an assembly that completely replaces the original flap/nib structure, as per the Tornado ECR.
The Kreuger Flaps were disabled back in the late 80's and that looks like a more modern pic (grey colour scheme, LAU, dark grey pilot helmet). I flew with them during training and iirc, on my first tour; a lot of weight to reduce the approach speed by a few knots (can't remember the actual number, but 7 rings a bell).
Vendee, drop the anti-F3 thing m8. The F3 did what the GR4 has done...towards the end of its time, proved itself to be an outstanding package.
edit: a German Tornado? The navs helmet gives it away I think. I guess they still use the Kreugers.
I don't think the Germans use the Kruegers on the IDS anymore (unless things have changed) and they are not fitted to the ECR variant either. I think Italy is the only nation with operable Kruegers now, but I am a bit out of the loop.
I think 7 kts was claimed but our FRCs only gave a 4 kts reduction (my brain cells are probably in a worse state than yours though).
I think 7 kts was claimed but our FRCs only gave a 4 kts reduction (my brain cells are probably in a worse state than yours though).