UK and Russia discuss 'incursions' into British FIR
Thread Starter
UK and Russia discuss 'incursions' into British FIR
Of course, nothing to do with ;
US and Nato troops begin Ukraine military exercise - BBC News
Whatever, incursions ? I suspect the Russians are only guilty of flying through UK ATC control zones, not UK airspace. If I'm wrong I'm sure there are plenty who can educate me. Does Fallon want to shoot them down, as Turkey does ? Is he that bloody stupid ?
Smudge
US and Nato troops begin Ukraine military exercise - BBC News
Whatever, incursions ? I suspect the Russians are only guilty of flying through UK ATC control zones, not UK airspace. If I'm wrong I'm sure there are plenty who can educate me. Does Fallon want to shoot them down, as Turkey does ? Is he that bloody stupid ?
Smudge
Oh dear, Geordie Expat, perhaps I've touched a raw nerve there. I assure you that I have no "political" agenda whatsoever. I only offer the fact that media will proffer conflicting opinion on any subject. As far as my own "political opinion" goes, I'm astounded that anyone could make a statement like " You have made your opinions on politicians clear on many occasions", I rather think you may be confusing me with someone else, I do try to avoid politics on PPRUNE old chap !!
OAP, quite right sir.
Smudge
OAP, quite right sir.
Smudge
Geordie, what a strange reaction there, fella. A bit harsh.
As for Smuj and his political opinions, I think you've got the wrong bloke. I can't even think of a time when that would apply to Smuj.
As for Smuj and his political opinions, I think you've got the wrong bloke. I can't even think of a time when that would apply to Smuj.
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Little ado about not very much. Back in the day, 'incursions' - by East and West - were routine. A little poking the wasps' nest, a little ELINT... mostly good clean fun.
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I suspect the Russians are only guilty of flying through UK ATC control zones, not UK airspace.
If you are.....what do you mean? Ta 🙂
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smuj probably means airspace 'controlled' by the UK ie UKFIR as opposed to 'territorial airspace'. House of Commons - Defence Committee - Written Evidence , from 2009 has a map of the FIR and info on 'incursions' over the preceding years. Hardly like in the 'good old days' tho.
No wonder BBC reported it- notice the ' BBC Russia' markings on the Bear's fin & rudder!
No wonder BBC reported it- notice the ' BBC Russia' markings on the Bear's fin & rudder!
Smudge,
My unreserved apology. I had indeed mistaken you for another who, whilst usually posting reasonable stuff, gets a bit hairy when talking politics.
Please excuse me while I take a few minutes to extract my foot from my all-too-big mouth.
My unreserved apology. I had indeed mistaken you for another who, whilst usually posting reasonable stuff, gets a bit hairy when talking politics.
Please excuse me while I take a few minutes to extract my foot from my all-too-big mouth.
Well Folks, IMO it is far worse than these comments suggest. Non-notified or covert Russian traffic can be actively tracked in the UK FIR. But outside this area , in Shanwick Oceanic North Atlantic Airspace for instance, safe deconfliction depends upon compliance with proceedural flying and active notification to the controling authority, in this case Shanwick. The FOI should be extended to clarify the level of risk that the recent Russian flights have posed to North Atlantic traffic and, what the UK Gov interprets as an acceptable risk?
OAP
OAP
Geordie Expat,
No problems whatsoever sir, and thank you for your post. I was beginning to worry that I was a radical of some sort. Keep smiling, and keep posting, there's nothing wrong with anyone who can correct an error (I often have to). Now, back on topic.
Best
Smudge
No problems whatsoever sir, and thank you for your post. I was beginning to worry that I was a radical of some sort. Keep smiling, and keep posting, there's nothing wrong with anyone who can correct an error (I often have to). Now, back on topic.
Best
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 13th Dec 2015 at 20:09.
As an ex Air Traffiker, and given I avoided West Drayton and similar places like the plague, the problem as Onceapilot describes and as I remember it, is not traffic in the UK FIR, which can be tracked and dealt with. It is non-notified traffic wandering about Shanwick's control area unaided that is the issue and is pretty scary stuff, I can't see any acceptable risk but how do you deal with it? I guess that is why the UK is talking to the Russians.
