FAF to buy 4 RAF C-130J??
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FAF to buy 4 RAF C-130J??
A possibility or a price haggling bluff?
France Considered Purchase of UK C-130s
PARIS — An acquisition of secondhand Super Hercules C-130Js flown by the British Royal Air Force was one of the options considered by France, which seeks to buy four C-130 transport planes to boost support for troops deployed across sub-Saharan Africa, two defense sources said.
The Direction Générale de l’Armement procurement office “raised at the start of December” the option, which sparked some surprise, a French defense specialist said. Britain, which was launch customer for the Super Hercules, is looking to sell the first 10 acquired and hold on to the remaining 14 planes.
“The British C-130Js are an option for France,” said US Army Col. John "Walt" Kennedy, chief of the Office of Defense Cooperation, here. The systems, including avionics, on those early models will need to be upgraded.
A DGA spokesman declined comment.
On Tuesday, US officers in Washington briefed DGA officials, who sought clarification on the offer of four C-130Js, announced last month by the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency. The US Air Force has offered an accelerated delivery schedule.
A ministerial decision on the C-130 is expected to be taken in the next two weeks, following the US briefing.
The US technical briefing set out in detail the elements of the offer, which carried a maximum price of $650 million. That figure sparked initial French concern as it far exceeded the €330 million (US $360.9 million) earmarked for the planned C-130 acquisition.
That “top price” of $650 million covered clearance for future upgrades and was intended to speed up their delivery to France.
France Considered Purchase of UK C-130s
PARIS — An acquisition of secondhand Super Hercules C-130Js flown by the British Royal Air Force was one of the options considered by France, which seeks to buy four C-130 transport planes to boost support for troops deployed across sub-Saharan Africa, two defense sources said.
The Direction Générale de l’Armement procurement office “raised at the start of December” the option, which sparked some surprise, a French defense specialist said. Britain, which was launch customer for the Super Hercules, is looking to sell the first 10 acquired and hold on to the remaining 14 planes.
“The British C-130Js are an option for France,” said US Army Col. John "Walt" Kennedy, chief of the Office of Defense Cooperation, here. The systems, including avionics, on those early models will need to be upgraded.
A DGA spokesman declined comment.
On Tuesday, US officers in Washington briefed DGA officials, who sought clarification on the offer of four C-130Js, announced last month by the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency. The US Air Force has offered an accelerated delivery schedule.
A ministerial decision on the C-130 is expected to be taken in the next two weeks, following the US briefing.
The US technical briefing set out in detail the elements of the offer, which carried a maximum price of $650 million. That figure sparked initial French concern as it far exceeded the €330 million (US $360.9 million) earmarked for the planned C-130 acquisition.
That “top price” of $650 million covered clearance for future upgrades and was intended to speed up their delivery to France.
Last edited by ORAC; 10th Dec 2015 at 16:30.
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France seeks to buy four C-130s? Hmmmmm. Two comments:
1. One C-17 can carry the payload of four C-130s and carry it farther. There's one unsold C-17 left. Maybe France can get a good deal from Boeing on that last C-17? And it would not need to be upgraded first like those old C-130s.
2. One A400M is equal to two C-130. Why aren't they buying two more A400M?
1. One C-17 can carry the payload of four C-130s and carry it farther. There's one unsold C-17 left. Maybe France can get a good deal from Boeing on that last C-17? And it would not need to be upgraded first like those old C-130s.
2. One A400M is equal to two C-130. Why aren't they buying two more A400M?
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Surely Ken you would know that there are things that a C-130J can do that a A400M or a C17 can't. Is this one of those rare occasions when you are not the worlds leading authority on everything?
S-D
S-D
Perhaps it makes sense, temporarily, to operate and support a small number of airplanes of a new type. But considering the crew training, parts, maintenance etc. - a huge overhead for such a small number. And for a single C-17, regardless of its known capabilities - hardly makes sense.
I don't know the actual numbers, but having fewer than 8 airplanes of a type seems like an unnecessarily expensive route for airlift. And it can't be hard to sell them later, they would be in demand for a long time, I would think.
In the interim, though perhaps it would make sense to participate in NATO's strategic airlift consortium.
I don't know the actual numbers, but having fewer than 8 airplanes of a type seems like an unnecessarily expensive route for airlift. And it can't be hard to sell them later, they would be in demand for a long time, I would think.
In the interim, though perhaps it would make sense to participate in NATO's strategic airlift consortium.
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Ken,
One C-17 needs 4 C-130 loads to fill it up, which isn't always that convenient. One C-17 can only be in one place at a time, while 4 C-130 can be in....
Same arguments for the A400.
Isn't the French deal all basically about tanking, which the A400 hasn't managed for them? They can buy Herks and have an instant tanker with all the clearances and experience and no mucking around.
One C-17 needs 4 C-130 loads to fill it up, which isn't always that convenient. One C-17 can only be in one place at a time, while 4 C-130 can be in....
Same arguments for the A400.
Isn't the French deal all basically about tanking, which the A400 hasn't managed for them? They can buy Herks and have an instant tanker with all the clearances and experience and no mucking around.
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Surely Ken you would know that there are things that a C-130J can do that a A400M or a C17 can't.
And for the record, I have never remotely claimed, suggested, or implied that I'm a "leading authority" on anything. You dreamed that up all on your own. Perhaps you should stick to dodging salad.
Last edited by KenV; 11th Dec 2015 at 19:09.
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Ken, One C-17 needs 4 C-130 loads to fill it up, which isn't always that convenient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strate...ift_Capability
Plus the single new C-17 at book price costs considerably less than the quoted price for the four used C-130s ($650 million after upgrades!!). And Boeing would probably sell that last white tail at well below book price.
Isn't the French deal all basically about tanking, which the A400 hasn't managed for them?
Last edited by KenV; 11th Dec 2015 at 19:18.
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Have you perhaps thought Kenny that the French may have thought this through for themselves?
I for one don't know exactly how the French are looking to use these aircraft and nor I suspect do you. I also suspect Kenny that you well know why the French may be looking at the C-130J rather than C17 or A400M. You wouldn't be up to your usual mischief making now would you?
S-D
I for one don't know exactly how the French are looking to use these aircraft and nor I suspect do you. I also suspect Kenny that you well know why the French may be looking at the C-130J rather than C17 or A400M. You wouldn't be up to your usual mischief making now would you?
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Why would they want a C-17?
I thought they had an agreement to utilise ours, that way Hercs would seem the logical choice and when the need arises for larger loads subcontract one of our C-17's.
I thought they had an agreement to utilise ours, that way Hercs would seem the logical choice and when the need arises for larger loads subcontract one of our C-17's.
The A400M delays have left L'Armée de l'Air short of tactical airlift. They don't need to buy C17, they're doing that A400 and the C130s and 160s are in need of a new bucket. That said, their tac insertion requirements in Africa are seen as better served by 130 than A400.
We did have an excellent low level fly by over the house by a Transall this afternoon. Looking forward to seeing a low lever A400M over here one day.
We did have an excellent low level fly by over the house by a Transall this afternoon. Looking forward to seeing a low lever A400M over here one day.
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Can't we give them 4 of our C130Js that sit on the ground U/S most of the time?
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Ken,
From what I've read, here (US Officials To Brief French on Possible C-130 Buy) amongst other sources, tanking is most certainly the order of the day. All I've read indicates a buy of two regular frames and two tankers.
Edit: in fact if you read the entirety of the original linked article it clearly talks about two being tankers.
From what I've read, here (US Officials To Brief French on Possible C-130 Buy) amongst other sources, tanking is most certainly the order of the day. All I've read indicates a buy of two regular frames and two tankers.
Edit: in fact if you read the entirety of the original linked article it clearly talks about two being tankers.
I know that I'm a 'little slow on the uptake' but I thought SDSR 2015 said we were going to keep our C130Js after all.
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No OD, according to CAS they intend to retain just 14 out of 24 of the fleet.
Even with a couple of spares that leads enough to supply the FAF.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post9201385
Even with a couple of spares that leads enough to supply the FAF.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post9201385
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Haven't we got a shed full of unused C130K's still sitting at Saints?