Fact or Fiction
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Fact or Fiction
I was asked a question recently where I thought I knew the answer ... but wondered if what I remembered was 'Fact or Fiction' 
RAF Aircrew Flying Time has been logged for some considerable time based on the convention of 'Wheels Off (Airborne)' to 'Wheels On (Landed)'. I assume RN and Army Aircrew follow the same convention. This approach is at odds with the Civil Aviation world who log 'Chock (Brakes Off) to Chock (Brakes On)'. This topic has been covered before on PPRuNe in terms of Mil 'Hours Accreditation' for Civilian Licences and allowances available etc.
But what was the original reasoning behind the Mil 'Wheels Off' to 'Wheels On' policy ?
The explanation I vaguely remember was linked with the measures taken during the UK Energy Crisis in late 1973. At the time I believe all nonessential Mil flying was curtailed along with the introduction of the Hours Logging Policy mentioned above ... all to 'demonstrate' the UK Armed Forces were doing their bit ... albeit the 'Three Day Week' was yet to come (Dec 73).
I may have got this completely wrong ... but just wanted to check my understanding
Best ...
Coff.
PS. I bet it would have been a bit embarrassing to reverse the policy once the Energy Crisis passed ... hence the policy still remains today ...
RAF Aircrew Flying Time has been logged for some considerable time based on the convention of 'Wheels Off (Airborne)' to 'Wheels On (Landed)'. I assume RN and Army Aircrew follow the same convention. This approach is at odds with the Civil Aviation world who log 'Chock (Brakes Off) to Chock (Brakes On)'. This topic has been covered before on PPRuNe in terms of Mil 'Hours Accreditation' for Civilian Licences and allowances available etc.
But what was the original reasoning behind the Mil 'Wheels Off' to 'Wheels On' policy ?
The explanation I vaguely remember was linked with the measures taken during the UK Energy Crisis in late 1973. At the time I believe all nonessential Mil flying was curtailed along with the introduction of the Hours Logging Policy mentioned above ... all to 'demonstrate' the UK Armed Forces were doing their bit ... albeit the 'Three Day Week' was yet to come (Dec 73).
I may have got this completely wrong ... but just wanted to check my understanding
Best ...
Coff.
PS. I bet it would have been a bit embarrassing to reverse the policy once the Energy Crisis passed ... hence the policy still remains today ...
Memories fade but I am pretty sure the wheels off/wheels on timing predates the 1973 fuel crisis. My own flying started in 1969, and I think we always used that system for logging hours in the RAF. I'm sure older members will confirm this (or correct me if I am wrong).
All I remember about 1973 is that we were all getting excited about getting 2 days buckshee leave a week, as the rumour went about that we wouldnt be expected to come in.
Never happened, of course
All I remember about 1973 is that we were all getting excited about getting 2 days buckshee leave a week, as the rumour went about that we wouldnt be expected to come in.
Never happened, of course
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Coff, wheels off in 61 when I was trained. Landing, taxying, and taking off again counted as airborne.
Only time when I wasn't happy with logging was with the great John Elias. We actually shut down, deplaned, and had a picnic lunch outside the sheds at Bitteswell. As he didn't sign off the 700, or do a TR, he declared the whole as flying.
There was an occasion, around 1963, Vulcan went in to Fairford and illegally made several joy rides with KC135 crew. The AEO sent regular ops normals. Finally they ran out of door air and had to get outside assistance to close the door. On RTB they would not have been able to blow it open. The captain, whose name escapes me, became a 2*.
Only time when I wasn't happy with logging was with the great John Elias. We actually shut down, deplaned, and had a picnic lunch outside the sheds at Bitteswell. As he didn't sign off the 700, or do a TR, he declared the whole as flying.
There was an occasion, around 1963, Vulcan went in to Fairford and illegally made several joy rides with KC135 crew. The AEO sent regular ops normals. Finally they ran out of door air and had to get outside assistance to close the door. On RTB they would not have been able to blow it open. The captain, whose name escapes me, became a 2*.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 2nd Dec 2015 at 10:54.
Definitely take-off to touchdown throughout my time starting in 1965 but I seem to recall that the Hercules force worked chocks-to-chocks or am I wrong?
Back in WWII weren't there occasions of Catalina crews logging some extraordinary sortie lengths when they included 'down' time at sea?
Back in WWII weren't there occasions of Catalina crews logging some extraordinary sortie lengths when they included 'down' time at sea?
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To continue the "Dutch Auction" of year numbers, my RAF flying training started in 1954 and wheels off to wheels on was certainly the rule then. Some time after leaving the service I took advantage of ANO Article 93, sub-para 3 and added 10 minutes "taxy" time for each of my military flights, so gaining some 470 hours.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Nuther, if it had been chocks I think many of us would have clocked more than that. Allthe time on exercises when we taxied then held before scramble, or joined the conga line after landing.
PN - Was that when we were picking up a resparred ac?
It was not an uncommon practice in maritime - stories abounded in FEAF of Sunderlands picking up families and going up country for 'swimming parties' and sending out 'ops normals' every hour, whilst I was introduced to the practice on what was laughingly called a LROFE (Long range operational flying exercise) on one of my first sorties on 205. We went to Labuan, shut down and had lunch in the pax terminal and picked up a load of duty free, all the time the siggie returning to the ac and sending the ops normal on schedule, before returning to Changi at the appointed landing time. The only real work was done by the nav who had to produce an air plot covering the whole (12 hour) sortie!
(I was also introduced to the technique of a windmill start when the starter motor failed on one engine - roaring down the runway on three and at about 80kts 'unfeathering' the prop. And it worked!).
And yes, it was always take off (or lift off) to landing.
It was not an uncommon practice in maritime - stories abounded in FEAF of Sunderlands picking up families and going up country for 'swimming parties' and sending out 'ops normals' every hour, whilst I was introduced to the practice on what was laughingly called a LROFE (Long range operational flying exercise) on one of my first sorties on 205. We went to Labuan, shut down and had lunch in the pax terminal and picked up a load of duty free, all the time the siggie returning to the ac and sending the ops normal on schedule, before returning to Changi at the appointed landing time. The only real work was done by the nav who had to produce an air plot covering the whole (12 hour) sortie!
(I was also introduced to the technique of a windmill start when the starter motor failed on one engine - roaring down the runway on three and at about 80kts 'unfeathering' the prop. And it worked!).
And yes, it was always take off (or lift off) to landing.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Shackman, no, we didnt swap aircraft which would have been a trick. Can't remember why we went there. What happened next though was the Pan call following an oil leak, a diversion by LonMil to Wittering and after ATC confirmed we did not have uniform and would not be allowed in the mess we went to Cottesmore.
Even then our caring sharing air force had its rules.
The Vulcan time was when the crew visited the KC135 crews that they had previously met at Goose.
Even then our caring sharing air force had its rules.
The Vulcan time was when the crew visited the KC135 crews that they had previously met at Goose.
nutherA2 wrote:
Of course for the Jaguar, a mere 10 minutes from brakes-off to airborne would be rather optimistic.....
Some time after leaving the service I took advantage of ANO Article 93, sub-para 3 and added 10 minutes "taxy" time for each of my military flights.
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Thanks Gents ...
So the 'Time Keeping' protocol pre-dates the 'Dark Days' of 1973.
Does anyone else have a similar 'Fact or Fiction' topic to share/debate
So the 'Time Keeping' protocol pre-dates the 'Dark Days' of 1973.
Does anyone else have a similar 'Fact or Fiction' topic to share/debate
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
I seem to recall that the Hercules force worked chocks-to-chocks or am I wrong?
Is logging t/o to ldg an example of the military being different for the sake of it or just no one has got around to making the change. Can't be that difficult to implement. Perhaps it's time to align with the rest of the world, after all, why not? It would save all that messy fixed time additions or running 2 logbooks in parallel as some people do.
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Flying Hours
I started training in Valettas and Varsities in 1964 and log books were wheels off to wheels on to the nearest 5 mins. Years later on Ex Crosscheck in Canada I flew with a crew much younger than me on C130s with nearly twice my flying hours because of their chock to chock timing policy and all engines running time on intermediate stops in between. Think of all those taxy scramble hours
Is logging t/o to ldg an example of the military being different for the sake of it or just no one has got around to making the change