Typhoon?
Originally Posted by WhiteOvies
I think you'll find that F-35 is already more capable than the Typhoon
But I have no idea who gave you the impression that the current cleared capabilities on the F-35 are anywhere close to that of Typhoon.
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CM,
OK, perhaps a bit premature, but the delay in fitting an AESA and the limited numbers of fully A-G capable Typhoon is a significant limitation (putting to one sides the relative merits of stealth discussions).
JTO,
Glad to hear it. Who's clearances? Ours or the USMC?
Back to the aircraft being discussed in the OP, it is a great shame that investment and development in the Typhoon's A-G capability was lacking in it's early years, especially as I recall it being called the Jaguar replacement quite a few years ago. However, the reality is that we don't have the money to spend on all the capabilities we would like whne we want/need them and the priority for Typhoon was QRA capability, rightly so IMHO. Tornado is doing a great job on Shader, with Raptor again proving it's worth.
OK, perhaps a bit premature, but the delay in fitting an AESA and the limited numbers of fully A-G capable Typhoon is a significant limitation (putting to one sides the relative merits of stealth discussions).
JTO,
Glad to hear it. Who's clearances? Ours or the USMC?
Back to the aircraft being discussed in the OP, it is a great shame that investment and development in the Typhoon's A-G capability was lacking in it's early years, especially as I recall it being called the Jaguar replacement quite a few years ago. However, the reality is that we don't have the money to spend on all the capabilities we would like whne we want/need them and the priority for Typhoon was QRA capability, rightly so IMHO. Tornado is doing a great job on Shader, with Raptor again proving it's worth.
Last edited by WhiteOvies; 18th Nov 2015 at 12:22. Reason: Trying to pull back thread drift
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Agreed, looks like you're pretty close to discussing the capabilities of F35 on the internet.
F-35B fuel tank redesign
The F-35B was given a redesigned fuel tank ullage inerting system for the fuel systems simulator – in English, this is the part of the plane that prevents potentially explosive interactions of oxygen and gasses in the aicraft's fuel tanks and intake. Further tests showed that the redesigned system had problems in aircraft integration that would require further hardware and software modifications.
Lightning fighter jets: RAF's new £100m aircraft could EXPLODE if hit by... lightning
Pilots have been banned from flying the RAF’s new £100million Lightning fighter jets in a storm because it could explode if hit by… lightning.
MoD chiefs fear a strike may blow up the fuel tanks and bring down the stealth F35-B aircraft, the most expensive ever built for Britain, in a ball of flames. Top brass have ordered pilots not to fly within 28 miles of a thunderstorm and while on the ground the jets, which are still being tested, must be put under cover if lightning is reported within 11 miles.
SNP defence spokesman Angus Robertson, who brought up the safety issue in a series of parliamentary questions, said the MoD admission was “shocking”......
The MoD said: “The F-35 has yet to complete its lightning strike testing.
“Due to this, and the fact that design modifications are planned to meet required levels of performance, a flight restriction has been placed on the aircraft which prevents operation within 25 nautical miles of lightning conditions. This is reduced when the aircraft is on the ground to 10 nautical miles and also uses additional protection measures such as shelters. These restrictions will be lifted once modifications have been embodied and testing completed ahead of UK *Introduction to Service in mid 2016.”
I don't want to turn this into another F-35 thread. Perhaps the lighting protection mods belong more fittingly on the other thread. That said, I need to draw some innocent comparisons to answer a question point.
Yes it is a great shame. Although Typhoon was no more a Jag replacement than F-35 is a new Harrier, a new A-10 or a new F-22. The entire Typhoon project has, in some respects, been a great shame and it was a massive frustration to me when I was a small part of the programme. Without revisiting the entire story all over again, the politics and continual changing circumstances of four nations were always going to make a good idea very difficult to achieve. The simple fact is that the future capabilities (which should have been current capabilities) are there and the platform is ready to accept them with software development and hardware additions that were always part of the architecture.
Easy Street hit the nail on the cranium very well:
With Tornado's future fairly clearly defined, the pressure is now on for something to take on its capabilities. Now, here's an interesting thing, where will the UK Government and the MoD put that investment - the platform that is already in service and was designed to take it and has already cost the defence budget dearly or the next big thing with even more uncertainty in that it seems to be suffering equal or greater delays, capability slips and cost issues?
If it weren't for the need to put some jets on a carrier (the only thing that is currently supporting an irreducible number), I suspect I can guess which way they would jump. Especially as there are still people in the programme (at various levels) that still feel badly bitten by the Eurofighter hardships, broken promises and industry cynicism.
But it will all come down to money as usual and whether the UK Gov will accept a potentially long capability gap between Tornado and F-35. The danger being that the capability gap may turn into a full-time loss when the same issues appear in F-35.
Hard one, eh?
Originally Posted by WhiteOvies
it is a great shame that investment and development in the Typhoon's A-G capability was lacking in it's early years, especially as I recall it being called the Jaguar replacement quite a few years ago. However, the reality is that we don't have the money to spend on all the capabilities we would like
Easy Street hit the nail on the cranium very well:
Originally Posted by EasyStreet
Why is it taking so long to get the weapons integrated? Answer: the other partner nations do not have the same degree of interest in adding air-to-ground capability to Typhoon. Some of them bought it purely as an air-to-air platform. Getting UK-specific weapons into the multinational programme of works requires give-and-take with other nations' priorities. The only way to do it quicker would be to go UDI with the desired configurations, but the aircraft would then be outside the master programme and (presumably) much more expensive to administer. With a cynical hat on, I could observe that the status quo protects Tornado quite nicely in SDSR. Deletion would be on the cards if Typhoon was already capable of augmenting it!
If it weren't for the need to put some jets on a carrier (the only thing that is currently supporting an irreducible number), I suspect I can guess which way they would jump. Especially as there are still people in the programme (at various levels) that still feel badly bitten by the Eurofighter hardships, broken promises and industry cynicism.
But it will all come down to money as usual and whether the UK Gov will accept a potentially long capability gap between Tornado and F-35. The danger being that the capability gap may turn into a full-time loss when the same issues appear in F-35.
Hard one, eh?
