Hawker Hunter Crash at Shoreham Airshow
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I think it fair to say that the CAA actions are far more wide ranging than just restricting vintage jets - additional risk assessments on all future civil air displays and a full review of civil air display safety.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Just 'loving' the negative comments about these 'old' jets just flying, let alone putting on handling displays.
Whats the average fatigue age of a mil jet that has gone onto a civilian display life? 3-4,000 hours?
Whats the fatigue life of the last airliner you happily boarded? 10,000, 15,000?
And please don't give me the rubbish of maintenance standard differences.
These old mil jets are LOVED, not worked. They were maintained to the highest standards when they were working, and most, if not all are maintained to a higher standard in their after service life.
You can regulate all you like, but nature will do its thing regardless of your piece of dead tree.
Whats the average fatigue age of a mil jet that has gone onto a civilian display life? 3-4,000 hours?
Whats the fatigue life of the last airliner you happily boarded? 10,000, 15,000?
And please don't give me the rubbish of maintenance standard differences.
These old mil jets are LOVED, not worked. They were maintained to the highest standards when they were working, and most, if not all are maintained to a higher standard in their after service life.
You can regulate all you like, but nature will do its thing regardless of your piece of dead tree.
MATELO,
The C in CAA stands for Civil, so they have nothing to do with the Red Arrows.
The C in CAA stands for Civil, so they have nothing to do with the Red Arrows.
deptrai,
It's a VERY unusual accident.
They are a set of temporary restrictions.
It's a VERY unusual accident.
They are a set of temporary restrictions.
Mil-26Man,
Vintage is an CAA aged category of CIVIL aircraft, the CAA has no involvement or authority over military aircraft.
Vintage is an CAA aged category of CIVIL aircraft, the CAA has no involvement or authority over military aircraft.
The response from BADA
BADA Information Note in response to the Shoreham Airshow Accident
From the BADA website:
• It is certainly not a time for un-informed or miss-informed rule making, especially when the existing rules have worked so well for so long.
From the BADA website:
• It is certainly not a time for un-informed or miss-informed rule making, especially when the existing rules have worked so well for so long.
Every airshow accident has a negative impact on aviation that far outweighs a thousand successful demonstrations. If there is a fatality to the pilot then even more so, and if to the public then you can expect the hammers of hell to come down. Flying it to the wire will eventually bite you, but how much margin should you leave? Whatever you thought before has proven to be not enough and I guess it will now be decided for you by the CAA.
I'll judge that from the frequency of airshow accidents in the UK this year, that whatever airshow guidelines are published do not have an adequate safety management system to match the expectations of our absolute safety culture. ACAS on this side of the Atlantic has struggled with similar demons. I could add specifically that there are issues with low level jet work, but there was also the David Jenkins crash earlier. Expect the CAA to come down hard, and rightfully so - they are culpable for not acting sooner and instead now having to explain how their regulations resulted in public fatalities.
I'll judge that from the frequency of airshow accidents in the UK this year, that whatever airshow guidelines are published do not have an adequate safety management system to match the expectations of our absolute safety culture. ACAS on this side of the Atlantic has struggled with similar demons. I could add specifically that there are issues with low level jet work, but there was also the David Jenkins crash earlier. Expect the CAA to come down hard, and rightfully so - they are culpable for not acting sooner and instead now having to explain how their regulations resulted in public fatalities.
That video from the A27 filmed immediately after.... Why the **** are people filming and not trying to help/first aid any casualties. The last thing I'd think to do would be to whip my phone out and film.
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@downsizer
Well it certainly helps the crash investigators as it gives them a better picture of the scene as it happened. None of the pictures seem to show anyone that can be helped, less still by untrained unequipped bystander.
@rolling20
Aerobatics are likely to resume once the storm has died down. It's a temporary measure only.
Well it certainly helps the crash investigators as it gives them a better picture of the scene as it happened. None of the pictures seem to show anyone that can be helped, less still by untrained unequipped bystander.
@rolling20
Aerobatics are likely to resume once the storm has died down. It's a temporary measure only.
Above the Clouds -
You're obviously someone who is prepared to go to great lengths to try and prove your point. Those excerpts (from I guess about 5 years ago) were describing military helicopters flying across open fields in the middle of the countryside. How you can possibly suggest that is the same as this tragic accident is beyond me - and please don't take that as a request to tell me, even though you seem to like to have the last word.
You're obviously someone who is prepared to go to great lengths to try and prove your point. Those excerpts (from I guess about 5 years ago) were describing military helicopters flying across open fields in the middle of the countryside. How you can possibly suggest that is the same as this tragic accident is beyond me - and please don't take that as a request to tell me, even though you seem to like to have the last word.
Given that air displays at airfields are usually based on the main runway (easier to adjust your sequence and for a fast reference), I suggest that it is largely out the pilot's control where the aircraft ends up following a failure (technical or manoeuvre). It is the Display Authority who should decide the direction, safety areas or even if the venue is suitable at all. For example, I was involved in the BOI into the Mig29 midair at Fairford a few years ago. As an academic exercise, I overlaid the crash positions on an airfield map of Farnborough, using the runway as a common reference. The casualty result would have been entirely different.
FB
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isn't it somewhat unusual - following an accident - that the CAA takes actions that are not based on AAIB recommendations?
If you want a high profile example, the Concorde fleet was grounded immediately after the Paris crash, and the accident board did not report for another 18 months. More recently think helicopters in the oil and gas sector.
There will be literally thousands of examples if you care to look.
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Seems like the CAA have put BADA in their place. The statement they made yesterday quoting that it was 'x years since there has been a spectator fatality at an airshow' and 'let us wait until the AAIB report' was, I suggest, fatuous. The issue here is that the fatalities weren't at the airshow. They were visited upon the victims as a result of other peoples entertainment going terribly wrong.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until further notice. They will be limited to flypasts, which means ‘high energy’ aerobatics will not be permitted.