Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Merlin Does JPR (Again)

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Merlin Does JPR (Again)

Old 7th Jul 2015, 17:56
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 421
Merlin Does JPR (Again)

Seen this before somewhere?

http://www.bfbs.com/news/articles/navy/4224?
chinook240 is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2015, 21:37
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: England
Posts: 263
Hilarious, the Merlin did not 'do' JPR in the first place. It merely played around the periphery.

We, UK Plc will never do JPR, certainly not in its full guise. We do not have the cash or the assets.
Door Slider is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2015, 22:52
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 223
Sir, we've got a pilot down in wierdistan....
Right.....where are the pilots that did that exercise that one time?
One is on leave and the other is in Kenya.....
Errrrrrrrr......
Shall I just call Pedro?
Yeah fcuk it....and Sandy whilst you're at it....
Here's your latte sir.....and a DSO.
Rotate too late is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2015, 23:26
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Darling - where are we?
Posts: 2,502
Hilarious, the Merlin did not 'do' JPR in the first place. It merely played around the periphery
Accurate if not a little harsh. 28 went through the process to become validated as a UK JPR capability; the following day the capability was put into abeyance by the RAF senior leadership / politicians. As I recall, it was largely a political exercise so someone could stand up in Parliament and say we had the capability, although I guess it's true to say that for as long as the guys that checked out in role remained on sqn there was some sort of understanding of the role and requirements, if not the ability to actually do much with that understanding. Hardly the fault of the aircraft, sqn or crews.

We, UK Plc will never do JPR, certainly not in its full guise. We do not have the cash or the assets
Yep. Agree with that 100%. You could probably also add political risk appetite to carry out JPR sorties to that list.
Melchett01 is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2015, 06:20
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Far North of Watford
Age: 79
Posts: 535
For the benefit of us mortals, what is JPR please?
Genstabler is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2015, 06:34
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Next door.
Posts: 668
Joint Personnel Recovery iirc. We practiced it on 28 for a short period and had a small rock unit embedded within the squadron. Happy days, then it got pulled seemingly overnight.

Last edited by Stitchbitch; 8th Jul 2015 at 06:37. Reason: Expanding...
Stitchbitch is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2015, 06:38
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 421
Merlin Does JPR (Again)

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/43483/JWP366.pdf
chinook240 is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2015, 11:45
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 1,283
Please explain, in less than 5000 words, the essential differences between JPR and Combat SAR - serious question!

Old Duffer
Old-Duffer is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2015, 13:20
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: not scotland
Posts: 197
OD

JPR is where full Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR) assets are either unavailable or inappropriate and where personnel (and equipment), neither trained nor equipped for CSAR, become isolated.
Toadstool is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2015, 14:49
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Age: 52
Posts: 45
OD,

Joint Personnel Recovery is the coverall term for all types of recovery, be they SAR, Combat Recovery or CSAR etc.
Odigron is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2015, 17:18
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Odiham
Posts: 169
Cool

We do have a JPR capability, of course we do! We just don't talk about it or declare it.
wokkamate is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2015, 05:26
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 1,283
Fellow ppruners, thank you for your responses above.

My recollection was that although not specifically practiced, the skill sets acquired in SH training allowed for a limited SAR capability to be deployed when the need arose - and that in the days of the Whirlwind.

Interestingly, at Tern Hill (or Ternhill if you prefer) in 1966, a requirement to plug the gap between Chivenor and Valley arose on a Friday night. The solution was to put a pair of Sycamores on the task, rather than the Whirlwind. End result was a sporty couple of hours on a misty morning groping around the Oswestry area and further west - the last SAR with a Sycamore.

Old Duffer
Old-Duffer is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2015, 08:13
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On the Bay, Vic, Oz
Age: 76
Posts: 415
OD, joint personnel is when they bring out the other lot as well as our own. SAR is when it's just our own.
alisoncc is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2015, 09:25
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: raf
Posts: 606
Doesn't the USAF have an entire trade that's dedicated just to combat SAR? The PJ's. The training is so hard, they're classed as spec ops. There's a few good documentaries on PJ's are knocking around, including a several part series filmed in Afghanistan.
gr4techie is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2015, 10:10
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: M4 Corridor
Posts: 554
In the Kosovo conflict I was at HQ 5ATAF as a Combat Survival Officer. What they wanted was Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR).
When a certain F117 driver ejected the response was Homeric. Satellites were moved. Eagles put up a counter air. Warthogs were on area denial. Pave Lows with Trap teams on board arrived and the whole thing rolled out on rails.
I salute the merlins but we don't do stuff like that.
Dougie M is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2015, 10:59
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 868
It very much was a viable asset at one point and a lot of hard training by the crews and RAF Regiment personnel was carried out. We achieved BMQ the day before it was shelved by UK Goverment PLC.
Merlins pass CSAR trial - 3/28/2006 - Flight Global

“28 Sqn demonstrated a viable JPR capability by day and night and this result will now be progressed,” says the UK Ministry of Defence. Based at RAF Benson in Oxfordshire, 28 Sqn currently has four crews trained to undertake JPR tasks, with a plan to increase this total to nine.
Here's what you could have won which should answer many of the questions above:
http://proceedings.ndia.org/7040/19%20Bates.pdf
TheWizard is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2015, 12:25
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK, for now.
Posts: 62
Further to previous comments, Joint Personnel Recovery is the sum of military, civil and diplomatic efforts to recover isolated personnel (IPs). JPR encompasses SAR, Deployed SAR (DSAR), Combat Recovery (CR) , Combat SAR, (CSAR) as well as Special Forces Operations and diplomatic efforts (the last 2 are generally used for captured personnel, but not exclusively so).

The JPR mission undertaken in each instance is dependant on 2 things: firstly, the capability of the nation conducting the mission; secondly, the ability of the IP to receive JPR (appropriate level of SERE training). In other words, even if a CSAR capability exists in theatre, if the individual being recovered is not trained or equipped to receive it, a CSAR mission will not be flown - more likely to be CR.

Whether or not the UK has a declared CSAR capabiility, Uk aircrew are generally trained and equipped to receive it.

Further information can be found in JWP 3-66
Radar Command T/O is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.