Civilian Instructors for the RAF
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Civilian Instructors for the RAF
Just read about the coming usage of civilian instructors for the RAF. Its all over!
The best thing about my flying training at Linton on Ouse was mingling with the serving military pilots. Service knowledge and tips wers part of the whole basic training effort.
Towards the end of my basic training, steep turns were practised and instilled as the best way of avoiding enemy fighters.
The best thing about my flying training at Linton on Ouse was mingling with the serving military pilots. Service knowledge and tips wers part of the whole basic training effort.
Towards the end of my basic training, steep turns were practised and instilled as the best way of avoiding enemy fighters.
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Many young pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain had been taught during the RAF's pre-war expansion period by ex-RAF civilian pilots at civilian flying schools. During the battle the RAF ran short of trained pilots, not aircraft; had it not been for these civilian training schools we might have had even fewer of 'The Few'.
Gentleman Aviator
ex-RAF civilian pilots at civilian flying schools
Once we lose (a number of) RAF QFI/QHIs, then from where do the next generation come??
But by then, the VSOs who made the decision will have long retired to write grumpy letters to the Torygraph. Cynical? Moi?
But surely ex-RAF flying instructors will be queuing up in droves to apply for a job teaching on the T-6C in Anglesey?
Or perhaps not....
Or perhaps not....
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I'm fortunate enough to have batted for both sides. 
Perhaps a civilian instructor can add something rather than just be belittled by skygoddery for not having Done Air Power? 
Perhaps a civilian instructor can add something rather than just be belittled by skygoddery for not having Done Air Power?
sharpend wrote:
Well yes. But I can't see STUPRECCC and CUBSTUNT getting past the elfin safety and MAA huggy-fluffies of 2015....
Be nice if they built a few new Folland Gnats.
Civilian Instructors for the RAF
I absolutely agree that they will struggle like hell to get people to Valley. However for the few of us who actually quite like the place this is not a bad pipe and slippers job. Maybe the paucity of applicants might even mean they'll offer a decent salary?!
As for the Linton angle, I seem to recall being taught by quite a few ageing QFIs who had been around for aeons. Would civilian ex-RAF QFIs be any different?
BV
As for the Linton angle, I seem to recall being taught by quite a few ageing QFIs who had been around for aeons. Would civilian ex-RAF QFIs be any different?
BV
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BV
I had a similar experience at Linton but noted that those studes that had QFI's who were either ex FJ (or creamies) as their principal instructors tended ending up on the list going on to Valley.
From my experience with a principal QFI who was very proud of his Coastal Command heritage (ex Shacks) and a secondary who was a former Vuncan co-pilot my chances of being taught to fly anything remotely FJ was limited.
Therefore it was no surprise for me to end up at METS.......
Perhaps civilian instructors with a FJ background WILL work but that is not a sustainable model as where are the next gen of ex mil FJ instuctors to come from? They certainly won't grow on trees! Even fewer will actually want a permanent posting to VY!!
So sad and predictable.
MB
I had a similar experience at Linton but noted that those studes that had QFI's who were either ex FJ (or creamies) as their principal instructors tended ending up on the list going on to Valley.
From my experience with a principal QFI who was very proud of his Coastal Command heritage (ex Shacks) and a secondary who was a former Vuncan co-pilot my chances of being taught to fly anything remotely FJ was limited.
Therefore it was no surprise for me to end up at METS.......
Perhaps civilian instructors with a FJ background WILL work but that is not a sustainable model as where are the next gen of ex mil FJ instuctors to come from? They certainly won't grow on trees! Even fewer will actually want a permanent posting to VY!!
So sad and predictable.
MB
Last edited by Madbob; 12th Jun 2015 at 16:25. Reason: remove spaces
Civilian Instructors for the RAF
MB.
In my day (Linton in 2001) we were already streamed FJ so there was no QFI lottery. My primary was an old and bold PA Flt Lt (previous FJ admittedly) and my secondary a VC-10 guy. Neither of them seem to have done me any lasting harm.
You are quite correct on your other points. It is all sadly predictable.
BV
In my day (Linton in 2001) we were already streamed FJ so there was no QFI lottery. My primary was an old and bold PA Flt Lt (previous FJ admittedly) and my secondary a VC-10 guy. Neither of them seem to have done me any lasting harm.
You are quite correct on your other points. It is all sadly predictable.
BV
Are they all going to be civillians or will the instructors be a mix of service personnel and civillians (albeit with the 'training services' provided by Ascent?
If all civillians, is this the end of the creamie?
If all civillians, is this the end of the creamie?
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My QFI in the early sixties at Linton was a Sergeant Pilot. He checked out on a Spitfire after a total thirty hours training! He was shot down on his first op and missed of rest of the Battle the due wounds.
He used to call himself 'The scourge of the Hun'! No wonder so many pilots trained in the war in the UK were killed.
He used to call himself 'The scourge of the Hun'! No wonder so many pilots trained in the war in the UK were killed.
Civilian Instructors for the RAF
The Hawk Creamie died with the advent of the Hawk T2. I honesty don't know if we still select Tucano creamies.
The one and only service paper I have written to date suggested the practice continue on the T2. I actually thought it was well written and properly thought through although I imagine it has long since biodegraded in a landfill somewhere or been emptied from the Microsoft recycle bin.
I believe the intention is a split between mil and civvy. Once the recruitment drive fails to produce though I guess there will be a lot more assignment orders sending people to the island of dreams.
It's just like York really.
BV
The one and only service paper I have written to date suggested the practice continue on the T2. I actually thought it was well written and properly thought through although I imagine it has long since biodegraded in a landfill somewhere or been emptied from the Microsoft recycle bin.
I believe the intention is a split between mil and civvy. Once the recruitment drive fails to produce though I guess there will be a lot more assignment orders sending people to the island of dreams.
It's just like York really.
BV
Read the NAO report on MFTS, it outlines exact instructor numbers and civilian vs military breakdown. The majority are going to be military.
Though with 28 Hawks, 23 Grob TP120s, 5 Embraer Phenoms and 10, yes TEN Beech T-6's, there will not be many of either.
One wonders if this bunch have looked at the numbers of training aircraft used by every other Air Force in the world...
Though with 28 Hawks, 23 Grob TP120s, 5 Embraer Phenoms and 10, yes TEN Beech T-6's, there will not be many of either.
One wonders if this bunch have looked at the numbers of training aircraft used by every other Air Force in the world...
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I can see the argument for military pilots to be trained by experienced military pilots, but was that always really the case even back in the day? Creamies, by definition had no military experience other than of the training system and in my time at BFTS, many of the instructors, with some notable exceptions, had flown nothing other than a JP for many years.
In any training system there will be accidents; where is the allowance for attrition? And as has been said before, a significant proportion of airframes will be undergoing maintenance at any one time.
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WT, you are correct in that Creamies may be back on the cards. The impending QFI shortage at Valley means that not only is a second 'once only reset' on the cards but so are Creamies (oh, and civilian instructors on the Hawk T2!). The problem is that the front-line need all the output that Valley can produce. Recycle some of that output back as Creamies and the front-line go short! With civilianising the training system, there's no quick answer as any changes have to go through a tortuous contractual agreement, as the NAO report highlighted. I fear we are witnessing the slow death of RAF pilot training.
history ?
If this and the current parallel NAO thread - http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...rt-mfts-2.html - are to believed, perhaps history will be forced to repeat itself ?
The Texas Air Base Where NATO Fighter Pilots Are Forged
......... LFH
The Texas Air Base Where NATO Fighter Pilots Are Forged
......... LFH