UK P8 Poseidon
CS and IR, sorry to have upset you but my point was that there is a difference between teaching the sensors and teaching and practicing/ delivering the full warfare, analysis and decision making skill set from an integrated command team point of view.
The seedcorn teams will be doing that but the RN is doing it daily across much of the fleet and the training pipeline.
The seedcorn teams will be doing that but the RN is doing it daily across much of the fleet and the training pipeline.
Last edited by andyy; 11th Jun 2015 at 08:13.
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As an aside, does anybody happen to know if any of the various Navys that do have MPAs rotate their sensor operators through airborne, surface and submarine roles?
I can see it might get expensive giving flying pay and submarine pay!
I can see it might get expensive giving flying pay and submarine pay!
Procurement decision
Setting aside the taxi, I think it a good move to have apparently ditched the long standing government (not MoD) edict that sonics hardware and software must be sourced from (what was) GEC-Marconi. I always felt this restrictive and wondered if operators knew far better and cheaper equipment was available, but denied them. To try to prove what had merely been hearsay, in 1994 I ran a blind trial at the JAAC pitting an upgrade of the AQS902G-DS system processor against a foreign one used by, for example, Canada and Australia. The latter won hands down. The operators / guinea pigs were both RN and RAF and were astonished at the performance. The Gods stepped in and demanded I buy the poorer value one for a related RN programme. It was then transferred to DHSA and I never found out what they did, but they'd be under the same edict.
Tourist may remember this, but every 18 months we spent in the region of £xM getting around 2% extra detection range via software updates. (Hard to call 2% an upgrade). In 1995 we developed a separate system that gave 78% for £758 per operator, with recurring costs of £2 per flight for batteries. Rejected as too embarrassing, but the Canadians took an interest. As did our Merlin people, whose SOBS had been in the Boscombe trials crew at BUTEC, FORACS and AUTEC, but they were soon told to wind it in.
Sorry, drifting a little bit, but the point is that designated strategic technologies are mostly governed by political directives. MoD has little say.
Tourist may remember this, but every 18 months we spent in the region of £xM getting around 2% extra detection range via software updates. (Hard to call 2% an upgrade). In 1995 we developed a separate system that gave 78% for £758 per operator, with recurring costs of £2 per flight for batteries. Rejected as too embarrassing, but the Canadians took an interest. As did our Merlin people, whose SOBS had been in the Boscombe trials crew at BUTEC, FORACS and AUTEC, but they were soon told to wind it in.
Sorry, drifting a little bit, but the point is that designated strategic technologies are mostly governed by political directives. MoD has little say.
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For those with deficits in the IT area, to quote a post:
Hit the "reply" button under the post. Go to the URL in the browser, and change the "noquote=1" to "noquote=0". The page will reload, and magically have the attributed quote at the beginning of the post edit window.
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Hit the "reply" button under the post. Go to the URL in the browser, and change the "noquote=1" to "noquote=0". The page will reload, and magically have the attributed quote at the beginning of the post edit window.
For those unable to cope with that, please click here.
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For those with deficits in the IT area, to quote a post:
Hit the "reply" button under the post. Go to the URL in the browser, and change the "noquote=1" to "noquote=0". The page will reload, and magically have the attributed quote at the beginning of the post edit window.
For those unable to cope with that, please click here.
Hit the "reply" button under the post. Go to the URL in the browser, and change the "noquote=1" to "noquote=0". The page will reload, and magically have the attributed quote at the beginning of the post edit window.
For those unable to cope with that, please click here.
Good one, Roadster!
If you don't want to quote the whole thing, there is another way.
As many do, copy the section you want to use as a quote, click the little quote icon (looks like a speech bubble at the top of the box you type your reply into and copy the quote between the two sets of square brackets.
Then, after the [quote but before the closing square bracket ] type =name-of-the-nob-your-quoting. An equals sign followed by the person's name. PPRuNe will do the rest.
Hmmm, I couldn't have made that more confusing if I'd tried.
Make it look like this, but use square brackets instead of round ones...
(Quote=user-name)text you want to share(/quote)
It's the "=username" that does the trick.
If you don't want to quote the whole thing, there is another way.
As many do, copy the section you want to use as a quote, click the little quote icon (looks like a speech bubble at the top of the box you type your reply into and copy the quote between the two sets of square brackets.
Then, after the [quote but before the closing square bracket ] type =name-of-the-nob-your-quoting. An equals sign followed by the person's name. PPRuNe will do the rest.
Hmmm, I couldn't have made that more confusing if I'd tried.
Make it look like this, but use square brackets instead of round ones...
(Quote=user-name)text you want to share(/quote)
It's the "=username" that does the trick.
So given the challenges of manning / regenerating the capability, what would a sensible first batch order be? I'd been thinking six plus options, but would even that be too much of a stretch in the short term in working towards IOC? Then again I guess it could just be a question of achieving a manageable delivery drumbeat.
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Originally Posted by Frostchamber
a manageable delivery drumbeat
( got the quote thing nailed CM
)
Tourist,
You asked in post 103...As an aside, does anybody happen to know if any of the various Navys that do have MPAs rotate their sensor operators through airborne, surface and submarine roles?
I can see it might get expensive giving flying pay and submarine pay....
Many years ago I was speaking to a Dutch P-3 aviator who said that one of the acoustic operators on his crew had been in the sound room of a towed array Frigate in his previous tour - so it appears that the Dutch used to do it.
Reference flying pay and submarine pay, I can certainly see the advantages of having someone with submarine experience as part of the crew of any ASW platform. Poacher turned gamekeeper.....
By the way, isn't it frustrating when you ask a question and nobody answers it!!
You asked in post 103...As an aside, does anybody happen to know if any of the various Navys that do have MPAs rotate their sensor operators through airborne, surface and submarine roles?
I can see it might get expensive giving flying pay and submarine pay....
Many years ago I was speaking to a Dutch P-3 aviator who said that one of the acoustic operators on his crew had been in the sound room of a towed array Frigate in his previous tour - so it appears that the Dutch used to do it.
Reference flying pay and submarine pay, I can certainly see the advantages of having someone with submarine experience as part of the crew of any ASW platform. Poacher turned gamekeeper.....
By the way, isn't it frustrating when you ask a question and nobody answers it!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Biggus, we once had some Perishers along for a ride on a sortie that they shouldn't have been in, if you follow my drift. They were able to tell us what was happening and more importantly what was about to happen, and happen it did.
Now that was something an airborne sonar operator would never have known until told and that could only have come from a poacher. Criss fertilisation should not be dismissed.
Now that was something an airborne sonar operator would never have known until told and that could only have come from a poacher. Criss fertilisation should not be dismissed.
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Do not worry, ever since Surplus has been on here, he has been trying to slip the words Cucumber and Wheelbarrow in, but has yet to have the opportunity.