Weapons release
Thread Starter
Weapons release
In a two seat jet (fighter bomber) - who actually releases the weapons i.e pushes the button to release the smart bomb from the rack or missile from the pylon?
I had assumed that the WSO tasks the weapon, and the pilot selects weapon type then releases it via a switch or trigger on the stick, but can both front and back seat do either task (tasking weapon - releasing weapon) interchangeably?
I assume the roles have blurred with the advent of multi-function displays both front and back?
I had assumed that the WSO tasks the weapon, and the pilot selects weapon type then releases it via a switch or trigger on the stick, but can both front and back seat do either task (tasking weapon - releasing weapon) interchangeably?
I assume the roles have blurred with the advent of multi-function displays both front and back?
Can't speak for other ac but for the Tornado GR1/4, the Nav/WSO can release non-forward firing weapons and air-to-ground missiles. Forward firing (gun/air-to-air missile) can only be released by the pilot.
Thread Starter
So - in the Tonka - when an air to air missile is to be used - the WSO switches the seeker head on, the weapon searches for the target, acquires the target - then the pilot fires?
Or does the pilot control the whole process?
Or does the pilot control the whole process?
Weapons release
Tartare.
I have not flown the Tornado but assuming some similarities with other jets the process is far simpler than that. The missile coolant will be turned on before take off (most probably).
When it is time to fire the missile it doesn't do much seeking. The pilot will drag the target into the HUD, uncage and fire. Nothing for the Nav to do except shout helpful encouragement! Unless the late arm is their job but I can't vouch for that.
Of course, in a Tornado getting a target into your HUD is the real challenge. Maybe it would help if the missiles were mounted backwards
And yes. I flew the Jaguar. Standing by for return fire.
BV
I have not flown the Tornado but assuming some similarities with other jets the process is far simpler than that. The missile coolant will be turned on before take off (most probably).
When it is time to fire the missile it doesn't do much seeking. The pilot will drag the target into the HUD, uncage and fire. Nothing for the Nav to do except shout helpful encouragement! Unless the late arm is their job but I can't vouch for that.
Of course, in a Tornado getting a target into your HUD is the real challenge. Maybe it would help if the missiles were mounted backwards
And yes. I flew the Jaguar. Standing by for return fire.
BV
Depends which air-air missile.
In the F3, there were missile management panels in both cockpits. Generally the backseater played with the radar missiles and the front seater the heat seekers, but either could do either.
Either type of missile could be slaved to the radar (so effectively the nav controlled where it was looking), or could be controlled in various HUD modes by the pilot. I say HUD, some of the modes went outside the HUD FOV.
There was also a mode which would allow the pilot to manually steer the heat seeker onto the radar angles given by the nav, which was very handy when chasing down Jaguars, as it was hard to see the little buggers down on the deck in scoshy wx. Also handy, especially with Buccs, not having to descend to quite their height, which might be 30 foot
Late Arm was front seat.
Trigger was front seat.
I believe the F-14 allowed the RIO to fire the radar missiles, which is the source of some of the confusion.
In the F3, there were missile management panels in both cockpits. Generally the backseater played with the radar missiles and the front seater the heat seekers, but either could do either.
Either type of missile could be slaved to the radar (so effectively the nav controlled where it was looking), or could be controlled in various HUD modes by the pilot. I say HUD, some of the modes went outside the HUD FOV.
There was also a mode which would allow the pilot to manually steer the heat seeker onto the radar angles given by the nav, which was very handy when chasing down Jaguars, as it was hard to see the little buggers down on the deck in scoshy wx. Also handy, especially with Buccs, not having to descend to quite their height, which might be 30 foot
Late Arm was front seat.
Trigger was front seat.
I believe the F-14 allowed the RIO to fire the radar missiles, which is the source of some of the confusion.
Originally Posted by Bob Viking
Of course, in a Tornado getting a target into your HUD is the real challenge. Maybe it would help if the missiles were mounted backwards
And yes. I flew the Jaguar. Standing by for return fire.
BV
And yes. I flew the Jaguar. Standing by for return fire.
BV
Fox 2 BV.
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Air to mud it's normally the computer that decides in automatic attacks but manual bombing is usually released by the pilot whilst the nav/WSO identifies radar discrete targets and sets/selects the weapons and attack modes.
Bloggs
Bloggs
I think your use of the term 'blurred' summed it up. On the most modern 2 man FJ cockpits there is very little that one seat can do that the other one cannot (F-15E, F/A-18F).
The original Tornado cockpit had more defined roles but even here the switchery for weapons depending on the weapon event. The front cockpit has 2 weapon release switches, both with different modes available. The normal rear cockpit has just one, again with more than one mode available. For air to mud the release button in either cockpit can be used as a commit button (with the final 'pickle' coming from the computer) as a direct pickle button (which can come as a surprise!).
As to who presses the button depends on the event and mode used. So for an example a standard dumb bomb delivery the front seat would press the 'commit' button with the computer doing the rest, usually with the nav feeding it updates, but with the option of a pure 'pickle' button. If the delivery method was more esoteric with rear cockpit using radar cursors then the nav would usually press the release button. To complicate matters further, in the days of strike both the front and rear cockpits had to press their respective buttons for the weapon to leave for its phun-with-physics moment.
The original Tornado cockpit had more defined roles but even here the switchery for weapons depending on the weapon event. The front cockpit has 2 weapon release switches, both with different modes available. The normal rear cockpit has just one, again with more than one mode available. For air to mud the release button in either cockpit can be used as a commit button (with the final 'pickle' coming from the computer) as a direct pickle button (which can come as a surprise!).
As to who presses the button depends on the event and mode used. So for an example a standard dumb bomb delivery the front seat would press the 'commit' button with the computer doing the rest, usually with the nav feeding it updates, but with the option of a pure 'pickle' button. If the delivery method was more esoteric with rear cockpit using radar cursors then the nav would usually press the release button. To complicate matters further, in the days of strike both the front and rear cockpits had to press their respective buttons for the weapon to leave for its phun-with-physics moment.
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BV
Do remember that most aircraft have a limited amount of cooling for their IR missiles. Cool prior to take-off and you may miss that kill 4 hours later!!
For those who think that you can utilize an IR missile at off boresight angles, how do you confirm WHAT the missile has locked on to? Yes you may get a growl and audio lock indication, so what?
ASRAAM is capable at high off boresight angles, but only usable with an HMS. ASRAAM with no HMS = MANY Blue on Blue!!
Do remember that most aircraft have a limited amount of cooling for their IR missiles. Cool prior to take-off and you may miss that kill 4 hours later!!
For those who think that you can utilize an IR missile at off boresight angles, how do you confirm WHAT the missile has locked on to? Yes you may get a growl and audio lock indication, so what?
ASRAAM is capable at high off boresight angles, but only usable with an HMS. ASRAAM with no HMS = MANY Blue on Blue!!
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Courtney,
The lack of knowledge is sometimes quite worrying. I have just picked up the book Phantom Boys and browsed through some stories. I was appalled to read an AD pilot (all be it a QFI) declare that any time an Aim9 got a tone it was good to fire. No thought about the aerodynamic capability of the missile.
One does wonder how many missiles could have been wasted due to lack of knowledge? Or maybe it was just a failure to be able to apply what had been taught in real time?
The lack of knowledge is sometimes quite worrying. I have just picked up the book Phantom Boys and browsed through some stories. I was appalled to read an AD pilot (all be it a QFI) declare that any time an Aim9 got a tone it was good to fire. No thought about the aerodynamic capability of the missile.
One does wonder how many missiles could have been wasted due to lack of knowledge? Or maybe it was just a failure to be able to apply what had been taught in real time?
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Crikey, you lot don't half complicate things on here. I'll make it simple for you - The Pilot.
The only time the backseater ever dropped a bomb was when the aircraft was in a reversionary mode. And that generally only happened in bombing competitions for sh*ts and giggles.
As a general rule the Nav, WSO, RIO, call him/her what you will, finds the target. The Pilot, stick-monkey, driver, gimp, call him/her what you will, fires/releases the weapon.
The only time the backseater ever dropped a bomb was when the aircraft was in a reversionary mode. And that generally only happened in bombing competitions for sh*ts and giggles.
As a general rule the Nav, WSO, RIO, call him/her what you will, finds the target. The Pilot, stick-monkey, driver, gimp, call him/her what you will, fires/releases the weapon.
This thread reminds me of the oft-told story of the Army (Cavalry?) officer visiting a (Hunter?) squadron. "Who fires the guns?" asks the Wupert."Me" says the pilot. "What?" says the army jockey, "An officer fires the guns?"
On about 20% of the Tornado F3s you could fire the cannon and launch missiles from the back seat!
Mostly OCU jets but also most front line squadrons had at least 2x two-stickers. All fully combat capabale and I flew them 'tooled up' within 30 miles south of Baghdad, over Bosnia, in the Falklands and on UK QRA. Not the Nav's choice, as the single stickers had a bit more room, but all the same, fully combat capable.
LJ
Mostly OCU jets but also most front line squadrons had at least 2x two-stickers. All fully combat capabale and I flew them 'tooled up' within 30 miles south of Baghdad, over Bosnia, in the Falklands and on UK QRA. Not the Nav's choice, as the single stickers had a bit more room, but all the same, fully combat capable.
LJ